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But what if you *are* Partner 1?
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Is p1 possibly the partner you spoke to? Lol. Based on that reply I would think so. I am not a partner, but I’ve been in situations like this in industry when juniors ask “what will it be like to be manager? What skill gaps should I close, etc.” I didn’t find it off putting at all. I appreciated the drive, and was glad to see my teams planning ahead!
OP - I am a senior partner myself . First - I am sorry you didn’t get an answer that was useful . I admire you for asking . When I had your role - I was way too afraid to talk to a senior partner on anything at all.
People ask me this question in many different ways and depending on the context - the kind of answer I give varies.
If I had a particularly rough day - I would rather listen to music or read a book than engage in a conversation . If I know you - or of you - and I see potential in you , I will spend a LOT of time with you guiding you . It’s in my best personal interest to have more high quality partners in the firm and I will do everything to make it happen - as will my fellow partners .
But pls do remember that my direct team itself is 1000+ of people when you count all levels . So the chance that I know you - or of you - is probably low . You can work to better your odds of getting noticed and then life will change for the better in these conversations..
This is someone I've only spoken to a few times, they have a pretty significant role. They answered "make partner first, then think about it". I agreed, but said I liked the idea of understanding the different roles one could take on, so I asked (in a different way) what made that role special for them. They again told me to just get promoted first. I understand it could have been an off day, or they just didn't feel like it, we're all human. But I still felt a bit crestfallen - being told its not worth thinking about yet? Partners - are you put off by questions like those? Is it in poor taste to think ahead?
Hoping it was bad day for the SP too. That was not helpful nor good advice. I would, and have taken the time to talk about your current projects, how the make sure you're developing your personal brand, etc. I recently had a conversation with a new hire hoping to make principal next year (new to consulting but technically experienced.) I warned him not to push for that too quickly as he could be setting himself up for failure. He was only 4 month in. He needed to better understand how we work, how we manage and deliver our projects, the politics, sales crediting, networking and on and on. He's very capable and has a bright future. I hope he heard me.
May be he just didn’t want to talk about work. I’m not a flight chit chat person. I’ll rather sleep or work
I agree - he could have been an introvert and / or exhausted. Partners are people too.
Sounds like you didn’t like the advice you were given. Interesting.
I guess the other way to interpret is the SP was a jerk and intentionally gave unhelpful advice because they’re a jerk. I think this is less likely.
My guess is they were trying to give the best advice they could, and they were trying to steer this Manager, but the manager didn’t want to be steered.
I’ve found partners keep everything a mystery from pay, pensions to how to get there. You’re either a chosen one or you’re not
Mentor
Fifth-grader to a college student:
“Tell me about Calculus.”
“You should focus on learning algebra and geometry first.”
Not the same thing, and I’m not a Super Senior Partner, but getting increasing Leadership/Managerial roles in the partnership, and it occurs to me that it’s actually not a bad answer.
Hard to describe, but those jobs are kinda defined in the context of the Partnership in a different way than like, Line Partner Account or Project Management, which itself is a hard thing to get your head around before doing it.
If they are Super-High up the food chain, “Understand what being a Partner is first” isn’t necessarily wrong. There may be a different answer than “They were being a $&@?.”
Mentor
It’s not clear to me that they didn’t, OP. Would need to have been there to properly contextualize the response, but I know I’ve said a variant of “Be careful what you wish for” more than once. The leadership jobs are totally different jobs, and as many people want them as don’t, but it takes being a lot closer to it than you are now to really understand the implications of those differences.
I thought I knew what MD was until I did it. Thought the same about Partner and was wrong then too. Definitely learning a lot about management roles that I would never have guessed or had a basis of perspective on. This is from a Big 4 standpoint. May be different in pure strategy firms which are smaller and less bureaucratic.
I’m saying give the guy the benefit of the doubt that they were actually coming from a place of knowledge and don’t default to them as the bad guy. The right answer may not be the one you want to hear or may not be hearable. It’s a long game.
Personally, I feel like that’s the last thing I’d want to talk abt on a flight. Much less be asked abt twice. It’s such a generic question too. Maybe you could have asked, what do you love most abt what you do? Or what’s the hardest part of your role?
But at least they are focused. They are focused on a takeaway that the SP is likely to have shaped an opinion on. Asking a general question about how a certain role is, is not focused, and the first thought for SP is most certainly: “ I don’t know where to start”.
It’s a small difference in topic, but it can make a big difference for the conversation (which everyone with C-suite exposure should know).
LOL, I love how this turned into D&I. I’m kind of siding with the partner now. Y’all are insufferable.
The advice was good. It’s on you to figure out how to unpack it. Just because it was giftwrapped in newspaper and not Versace paper doesn’t mean it isn’t good.
Also if this is a senior partner, they have anywhere from 500-5000+ indirect reports. So you probably didn’t give them anything remarkable to think about after their long day. Try toastmasters.
Next time ask a FEMALE partner! Too bad there are so few of us!
Mentor
As opposed to....
Forget it.
Mentor
How did we get to this? Did I miss the part where we should assume OP isn’t a white male himself(which is totally possible).
What are you, OP?
I’m Blackety-black-black and I can see where the reference Partner might be coming from. Where did all the rest of it come from, K2?
OP the advice doesn’t seem misogynistic or discriminatory. It’s accurate if a little terse, borderline rude. The fact this discussion has gone off a D&I cliff is unfortunate and detracts from the message. In a Big 4 environment it’s very hard to appreciate the Partner role until you’re in one. We could do a far better job of educating staff as they develop but it feels like we strive to create a sense of mystery about the role and the process of being elected to join the partnership. Once you’re in the process you get more insight but you don’t really get a sense of how the partnership functions until you’re reading dozens of pages of a partnership agreement. Once you’re in then you’ll have a better appreciation for the different types of partner roles and what the trade offs are.
TL;DR : don’t worry about senior partner roles, focus on understanding what the path to partner looks like - that’s a more rewarding and important exploration.
I agree with the Sr.Partner - we don’t know what we will be doing tomorrow so why ask him something that’s a few years down the road
He could have give you the standard answers but he didn’t and that was good - think about how to make SM first
P4- I’m guessing you’re a white male POS. Comparing a MGR who is probably 5 yrs at a company or even more experience in industry to a 5th Grader is why I can’t stand 1/2 the people I work for. While going from being the product to a glorified sales rep there is a change in roles don’t think for a second that someone couldn’t understand what you do.
Mentor
Hmmm. Interesting.
No. I’m not white. Very not white. What are you?
I am male, but I’m curious as to why that makes a difference.
There is a difference between an illustration and saying someone is a fifth grader. Disappointing that you don’t understand that difference, but I can understand why you can’t stand half of the people you work for based on that reaction. Its concerning that as a Senior Manager you think a leader of the firm is a glorified sales rep, but OP didn’t say exactly what the Partners role was. In your defense, I didn’t really understand the difference in perspective even between an MD and Partner, much less that of a line partner and a network, service line, industry or business unit leader when I was an SM/Director.
You may not want to go beyond that role, which is fine, because it’s the best role on a lot of dimensions, but if you do, you might want to spend a little time understanding those differences, cause you’ll be tested on it.
It must be awesome to have all of the answers about something you haven’t done and demonstrably know nothing about.
So much here has made me recall exactly why I can never see myself staying in this field long term. There is still such a lack of support and true apprenticeship (toward women in particular). Thank you to this post for a very sobering reminder. Sorry OP. I think there is some good stuff in here to help you, but the replies from p1 and others are so disheartening. Good luck to you. Stay ambitious, keep asking. I have no doubt you will find someone that wants to invest in you.
Thanks C1 👌
Well I appreciate all of the responses here - after all, no one will ever know what he was thinking, but your perspectives are interesting to consider.
I've just started work on his largest client account, so maybe I'll brush up on my Qs as some of you suggest ;)
I thinks it’s fine to ask and the partner should have been a bit more helpful in that situation. That said, I’m just a manager so maybe I’m wrong
Just a manager? Leaders come in all shapes, sizes and titles :)
As some have mentioned above this is exactly what is wrong with the industry. An aspiring female partner from a minority background given this sort of advice from what probably is a cis-white male partner who has such archaic stereotypes ingrained into him. Brought up in a time of a white male dominated workforce there is a plausible chance that he doesn't view OP as partner material. Change needs to come from the top and we really need more female and minority representation at senior leadership levels within the partner cohort. They should be the ones with titles like 'Head of EMEA, Co-Head of North America etc. Etc.' not white males who have had everything handed to them on a platter since day 1.
How long have you been bottling that up k2? At least you got it
Well, that escalated quickly!