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I don’t think there’s much difference between us and McKinsey tbh.
Bain seems to actually be different, driven by much more undergrad hiring—>see people stay there longer and generally happier even with the big DD focus.
…
I think generally WLB at consulting firms is horrible. But there are some differences between the firms in terms of degree of bad WLB.
My spouse works at Mck, and I’m at Bain, and I see considerable difference in WLB atleast at the consultant level.
1. The mck teams are leaner and therefore there is lot more work for each person, leading to very late nights
2. Generally at Bain people care about your life outside of work. There are mechanisms in place to ensure you don’t have a terrible WLB, and can share suggestions that will make the case a more sustainable experience. I’ve heard case team surveys at Mck are a joke and no one takes it seriously. At bain, results are shared office wide so managers are incentivised to help resolve sustainability issues
Not being a hardo at all, and I’m a B4 partner now. You have no idea how different the B4 model is, even in strategy, and that’s really what C1 was asking. There’s a set point once a year, or twice at some firms, where the promotion and CTL decisions are made. The MBB model is totally different and those decisions are rolling.
And I’d also agree with those who said not making it to 2 years is in part about luck — a couple bad cases in a row can really screw you, especially if the industry is soft at the time. It’s not always this busy.
Differences within the firms are far larger than differences across the firms.
This is always the correct answer with these questions
Don’t know the other firms - but we do have plenty of extended PTO/Take time and part time options. Two month additional (unpaid) leave per year is not too bad!
I really don’t feel like McK is cutthroat - in contrary, one of the things I most like about the firm is how nice and caring everyone is towards each other (except for maybe 1% assholes that can probably be found anywhere)
For reference, Deloitte now has 1 month unpaid leave for any reason not covered by existing leave benefits.
What I’ve noticed in this thread is that all the Bain people are talking about how good Bain is, the McKinsey people talking about how good McKinsey is, and the BCG people are just busy trying to explain what PTO means.
I was there for the beginning of the PTO experiment; it was dumb back then too. Well intentioned but dumb. You manage burn by building a culture that enforces good behavior.
No. It’s mostly marketing. It varies a lot within each firm based on an individual’s priorities, but you can race to partner at each firm *or* prioritize sustainability - the choice is yours.
As someone who has recruited for all MBB and has now done recruiting on behalf of M, we are just really bad at marketing ourselves. The experience varies so much at M, that I wouldn’t generalize the experience beyond, you can make it what you want it to be.
I think the personality stereotypes are completely overblown. Maybe were true once, but all 3 firms are big enough that there are all sorts of people at each.
What is true is the extent to which cultural norms and structural differences drive experience at the 3 firms. I consistently see from my friends and colleagues that Bain has better wlb, a more enjoyable experience, and better retention to senior levels than M/B. There are a few reasons I think. These factors can be relevant in subsets of the firm at M/B, but I think they are more universally relevant at Bain.
- Cultural focus (from the top) on sustainability. This is driven by things others have mentioned e.g. surveys and accountability
- Team structure. Bain typically staffs bigger teams as a function of the pyramid being larger at the bottom than the middle (which is cheaper)
- Approach to projects. We are probably more 80/20 in the way we approach problems than M/B
- Home office staffing model. This reduces travel vs other firms, but mostly it means managers with poor sustainability get found out very quickly as their teams are always from their office
US-focused view: I also noticed you guys have way more “Americans” especially vs MB, especially in certain US cities whereas in MB is very internationalized (to the point where finding someone who cares about college 🏈 is hard), probably due to larger global presence and transfers. The general impression on-campus is that Bain is more biased against internationals vs. the other two, especially those for whom college/b-school is their first US experience.
The median sr.mgr-partner level at some of our coastal offices is probably a European or Indian male whereas with you guys I think its more along the lines of a white American male.
That likely drives differences in culture/work life balance, if you have a lot of people whose main reason for being in the us is work and who may came from other regions known for poor WLB, that’s a recipe for poorer sustainability. It also can drive ethnic cliques within offices.
MB also hire far more pHDs leading to “nerdier/more intense” culture.
Both pros and cons to each situation I suppose.
This topic is funny to me because my two best friends are Mck and BCG. We always joke we got mbb down three of us. We obviously don’t represent the three firms but when we get together and talk about work the differences are pretty interesting. We’ve been working for few years now at the three firms, and I consistently have better WLB than the other two. McK is always stressed out - he’s either staffed on a case working late even on Fridays or is not staffed and worries about staffing himself. He also spends few hours on Sunday night “organizing” work so he can have a better following week, but if you ask me that’s still working time and I’d never even open my laptop on a weekend. BCG friend also seems stressed out but has less work hours total than Mck friend.
Think the conclusion on this is that it’s also quite person dependent. Even within Bain, some people push on sustainability, take as many flex options as possible, put their foot down more frequently etc. These are the people who tend to find the job more sustainable. Whilst others choose projects with leadership they know will work them harder but they care more about getting the quickest promotion or best rating, and have a plan to leave fairly quickly to PE or something else anyway. If I look at colleagues experiences even within Bain they differ wildly
I think those stereotypes may have been applicable ~30 years ago when the firms were much smaller. Given their scale today, they are more similar than different.
I did take time at McKinsey - the unpaid time off thing consistently in my 2+ years there. Would take a week off in between every project, so would amount to ~5 weeks additional time off every year. Was awesome. Never had any impact on my ratings or performance. Is one of the biggest things I miss about Mck since leaving
Not cut throat here. But yes, the work is intense. It’s consulting so we all work hard. PTO is at your discretion so not sure why bcg talks about it. Nobody stops you from taking days off at any firm. Our sustainability surveys are taken seriously at least in my experience. McKinsey is larger so there are more people to raise complaints and that’s why you hear this crap :)
M4, I’m sure your WLB is better in B4 but quite a few of those things you mentioned we also do at Bain. In between busy projects you frequently get downtime, we have an ‘early night’ system whereby you can tell them each week a night you want to be out early (eg it’s your partners birthday or you have theatre tickets, dinner with friends etc), and staffing are generally pretty good about giving you downtime if something is going on in your personal life (assuming you feel comfortable discussing it). A lot of that depends on your direct supervisor and how much you push for it at bain. Though of course I imagine in general your hours are way better!
Outside perspective so take it with a grain of salt but they’re big firms so it likely differs by office, practice, team. When I interviewed at McKinsey one of the Partners told me she’d spent a fair bit of time working out where she wanted to fit into the firm and who she liked working with and who she didn’t.
There will be a baseline difference due to structural reasons (eg global vs home office staffing, pyramid vs diamond structure, style of firm off-sites), but ultimately you should find your people wherever you go.
If you are good, someone will work you to your breaking point. If you are really good, and an actual asset, they'll recognize they aren't allowed to burn you out.
Bcgs sweaty but I’m sure the others are bad too