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Seeing the same thing in financial services, the smaller firms (staff aug) are claiming they can do the same work for lower rates and it's making it tough for us to win more work / win extensions on our work, and it is putting pressure on us to reduce the size of our engagement team to reduce costs. I'm also drawn by the allure of MBB due to the prestige and promise for more money in the long term but have a very comfortable setup at EY and I know that my hours, travel and stress would all likely increase substantially
More intense? Data from the Reddit /r/consulting suggests so. Personally, 55 hour week is living the dream. 65 more common. >75 pretty uncommon unless it's a DD. That said, there is far less stress around staffing and utilization. We don't talk about utilization / I have no idea what mine is. Beach has been running lean, week between cases if you're lucky.
Easy EY4 he could be an experienced hire
You're a manager and don't know MBB? I might understand from a new consultant, but come on. Step your game up
EY4, everybody doesn't know everything. I'm sure there are things out in the world which you aren't aware of. Share the knowledge and don't be a dick!
Take the risk. EY is comfortable, but our reward system (comp and bonus) is horrible. If you're a good performer, EY will leave the door open.
I'm SC in PAS. Considering leaving because I'm concerned about the pipeline of work in Big 4 firms in general. Lots of smaller competitors are starting to eat up the human capital space in particular, so I want to buffer myself and build more skills by becoming a generalist. However, as mentioned, very comfortable at EY and also thinking about leaving consulting altogether. But the allure and prestige of MBB is hard to resist. I just want to know what I'm getting myself into if I accept.
I am also in Performance in PAS, legacy p&oc. First of all, I'm surprised there's a partner on here, but since you're here--and since we're talking about whether or not to leave PAS performance, I will share some thoughts. First and foremost, morale among my entire staff-SM network is abysmal. And I have a large national network, so I don't think it would be appropriate to assume that only disgruntled people flock to me. Based on that alone EY OP, i might leave. This place feels like a funeral home. That having been said, I'm not sure other places will be better. I have no idea. All I know is that morale at EY has gotten way worse in my multiple years here. Which brings me to my second point--leadership told us PAS was a good idea. EY5, can you look your staff through SM in they eye and tell them that for legacy POC people it was a good idea? If you can, I would be very surprised. Look at our numbers--they're HORRIBLE. Either we have terrible planning capabilities, or we're not doing our jobs. Either way, it's not good. If things continue like this, there will be limited promotes next year and even smaller raises. Consider that EY OP. And speaking of YE, what of it? I hear pure FEAR in people's voices about YE. No one knows what it's going to look like, and as someone who cares about my career and the careers of my colleagues, that is frightening. As a change management professional, I can honestly say that the way PAS has been executed is EMBARRASSING. EY OP, I don't know if you will find more fulfillment or happiness elsewhere, but even if you can find something a little less disjointed, it would be worth it to switch. I have very little faith in the PAS Leadership team. What's worse is I look at the legacy POC leadership team and feel sorry for them--they're powerless. So EY OP, think about your long term goals and priorities. If you want to try to stick it out and make it work here, as some of us are doing, it's a noble goal. If you want a bit more peace of mind and just pure enjoyable experience without SUCH an intense political nightmare (everywhere is political, but PAS is a special case right now), make the move. Good luck.
Think about money potential if you stay and exit opps if you want to get out in x years.
You also have to consider that working at EY, you have an established network, you know the culture and how to perform, etc. but when you switch to mbb, you are starting over... literally in all aspects.
@EY9 - I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.
@EY5 - Every legacy P&OCer I know resents the way PAS was rolled out, and those who joined from Big 4 competitors regret making the switch. PAS leadership communication is abysmal at best, frightfully misleading as worst. The amount of mixed messaging (and silence) we've been provided about the future of the our group and our own career paths in the last 18 months is embarrassing. Get it together - aren't y'all supposed to be experts in stakeholder engagement? 🤔
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 @EY10
@EY9 I would gladly discuss this with Partners live if I thought a) someone would listen to me/anyone cared what I had to say, but it's been made ABUNDANTLY clear nobody cares -- or worse, even if they do, they can't do anything about it, and b) I thought the environment was safe. It's not safe. Our leadership is too obvious about its favoritism. You say or do one wrong thing and certain Partners will excommunicate you. The favoritism is RAMPANT. Lots of PPEDs don't even bother to try to cover it up anymore. Now, you're probably wondering why I haven't left. It's because a) I don't believe in giving up on a challenge and b) it's easy enough to ignore all of this on the day to day and just do my job. But I don't see EY as a long term option because our leaders, as EY10 pointed out, can't get it together. I also don't see myself in consulting long term. If I did, I would switch firms in a minute.
"Come join p&oc" they said. "We can't keep up with all the growth'" they said. "We promote on merit and project opportunities are abundant" they said. "We care about our people" they said. "We are a small practice focused on strategic change management" they said. They lied.
Wow I didn't realize I was the only one feeling disillusioned about my role and practice. I hope some of the higher ups are hearing this and will make changes for the future. If we are advising clients on human cap, we should have our own house in order as well.
65h at BCG is the average. I did move from Big-4 and it was definitely worth it ; after a few year I know I operate at a whole other level. It is a higher risk move since you might crash in the first couple years, but even then I'd be willing to bet that your exit ops will be worth it
Been struggling with this question myself. Have amazing connections at my firm at VP level and fantastic client relationships, but worried I'll always be branded a tech guy despite doing strategy work. MBB definitely much better exit opportunities, money, etc, but I'd have to start fresh with no network, and possibly even go down a level too...
At the risk of sounding arrogant, there is more similarity between McK and BCG than either of those with Bain.
Yes, EY9, I can (and I do) look people in the eye and say the concept of PAS is a good one and the implementation was problematic as hell. Organizations will not get everything right all the time (or we wouldn't be employable). I do believe it is fixable. I'd welcome the opportunity to share more, why it is important that more people like you speak out about how you're feeling and to reconnect with PAS leaders. Or with me if you have little faith in us collectively. I'm not the only EY partner here by far. Anonymous as this might be I do think it will be much better to have a real conversation. We can connect some dots and do that if you are willing. OP I offer that to you as well.
What was your work like at EY?
What are your reasons for considering making this change, and why are they important enough to you to consider leaving?