The specialized in-house legal team we work with loves our work. However, our entire firm was just terminated by the client. We were told that they liked the work but (this is almost verbatim): "your firm has too many white men." Apparently, we didn't meet the [large, public] company diversity objectives for law firms. Anyone experienced anything similar? Honestly, I don't think there is much you can do (except perhaps redouble our firm commitment to diversity). Still... it stings a bit.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

I’ve seen this from several clients and current use diversity considerations when selecting firms. This recounting is a bit disingenuous, I think. You present this like you were fired out of the blue, instead of more likely having lost out in a competition in which you were informed of the company’s diversity requirements and failed to meet them. In any event, we do this because of people like you that seem to throw their hands up in the air and claim they have no control over diversity in their firm despite being in charge of hiring. It’s fine to have that attitude, you just won’t be our client with it.

likefunnysmart

Good. Women and BIPOC have to work 10 times harder to be at the same level as white men. I only hire diverse candidates for that reason. They are quite literally more qualified. I don’t have to worry about who’s daddy did another daddy a favor for their son.

likesmartfunny
Recent IconRecent

Let’s be honest, this is a little ridiculous of them

likefunny

If you can’t attract diverse talent this day in l age, there is something seriously wrong with your firm.

like

Kudos to this company for having objectives and actually implementing consequences when firms fail to meet them. There is a gross lack of diversity at law firms, and this won’t change until there is a threat to a firm’s bottom line. More companies should follow suit.

likefunny

I’m sure there were warning/guidelines/conversations about this at the highest (relationship) partner level… no way they wouldn’t have given the firm a heads up if they really liked you.

like

I haven’t had the experience of being terminated because my firm isn’t diverse enough; but I’ve had my firm ask me to sign off on them disclosing the fact that I am a minority precisely for this reason. Because there are clients that care that the firm be diverse according certain metrics they set.

Gotta be honest, I appreciate the push to diversify the profession, but I have never felt like such a token person as when this happened. Like clients are only interested in my work, or the firm only hired me in the first place, because I’m brown - not because my work is good. Feels bad man.

I wish it was just approached as hiring good lawyers, regardless of the color of their skin or what’s between their legs. After all, I’m a lawyer — not a minority lawyer, not a Hispanic lawyer, not a brown lawyer. I am just a lawyer - full stop.

likesmart

Good on the client. Diversify

like

I’ve heard of bigger clients wanting more diversity including women run firms.

likefunny

Good firms can attract diverse talent. If your firm doesn’t have diverse talent, you aren’t the best of the best. I think some introspection is in order

likeupliftinghelpful

A lot of companies have implemented a 30-50% women/minority/LGBT requirement. That’s a pretty low bar. Only 50-70% of the team can be white men. So if a client dropped you like a hot potato, you must not even be trying to diversify.

like

Diversity of people is not just to meet some random quota. A diversity of people leads to a diversity of experiences and a diversity of backgrounds, which leads to a diversity of thoughts on how to handle situations that your clients encounter so that an optimal solution can be reached. This has been proven (i.e., not just conjecture). People who have similar experiences tend to address problems in a similar manner and it is easier to overlook other solutions in that environment. It sounds like the client wants to work with firms that provide that diversity of attorneys, experiences, backgrounds, and thoughts.

likesmart

And that, of course, is the client’s choice.

We have a big firm client, fortune 500 company, that has set very clear expectations for the diversity of its outside firms. They were upfront a few years ago about how we were missing the mark and what we needed to do, which we’ve been working on. I assume there were similar conversations in your case but maybe they didn’t see enough progress?

like

It’s so when companies, especially large public ones, say “we are so very sad about x, so we committing $500 million dollars to diversity!!!” they can use that money on legal bills.

Sorry you got shafted.

like

Some municipalities and accounting firms have specifically told us we need to have more diverse teams. Problem is, most litigation partners are old white men. I love the old white men I work with. They're very competent and do great work. Losing the client means I am deprived of the work experience as well. I tick off the DEI box. I think those policies are short-sighted, but it's the clients choice, so what I think probably doesn't matter.

like

OP is like a jilted lover. We can’t take his word at face value.

likesmart

Good. I'm a black female. One of my friends, also a black female, applied to a firm twice. The problem was her cover letter had her picture on it. Then a friend of hers, a white female attorney, passed that same resume over to the same firm just without the cover letter. My friend immediately got an interview. During the interview however, the managing partner went on and on about how they would like to hire black people but they just aren't qualified. We're millennials. This isn't 30 years ago. He said this to her face. Needless to say, my friend did not get the job. In this day, lack of diversity equates to racism. Qualified POC exist. However our skin pigment is a major deterrence during the hiring process.

likehelpful

As much as I think this was stupid on OP’s former client’s part, it is said client’s choice to hire whatever firm it wants for whatever reason. Which also goes both ways. But I’m a adamant libertarian so I’m sure anyone can guess my views on the subject.

smartfunny

But for real... if true, isn't this illegal? If a business were to terminate a firm and state that the reason is that the firm had too many lawyers of a given minority group, wouldn't that be illegal? I'm asking, not telling. I'm not an employment lawyer. (And, no, I'm not feeling sorry for white men and I'm not generally concerned about "reverse discrimination." Would just honestly like to know.)

like

Exactly, A3. It isn’t employment discrimination; they are outside vendors. It might be bad PR to say “I don’t want to hire black, female, pregnant, gay [insert group here] people as 1099 contractors,” I don’t know there could much that could be done about it. But, Let’s be honest, in my view all employment discrimination is pretty much under the radar and is very hard to prove. I mean, who is going to hang sign the equivalent of “No Irish Need Apply” these days. (Though I think I have one for ironic purposes.)

Mansfield Rule

Firms and people don't understand that good work is the bare minimum.

Related Posts

When do you think associates are usually let go in small practice groups that are currently being overwhelmed with work? Is it when it starts to slows down or when they already have a candidate to replace you? Just trying to figure out how long I have after annoying a partner 😂.

Manager on the team is a know it all and keeps bad mouthing people - why do we tolerate such jerks 🤷‍♂️

like

“At dinner John (client) said I have nice legs, grabbed my thigh, put his arm around me & invited me to his hotel. Seems inappropriate.” Boss: “Well we won’t be taking him to dinner again this year”🤯

likehelpful

I always freak out when any boss wants to talk to me. Could be good, but I’ve also had the unexpected bad convo. Hate that I always expect the worst.

like

After joining Nagarro when project proposals start coming? In how many days they schedule the interview?Nagarro

like

Hi partners. I’m considering an offer from a key client in my region. I’ve never been on a client engagement with them, but my practice in my region has traditionally done a fair amount of work(contd)

like

Hi Fishes,

Do these 2 points in the JD allude to modelling requirements?

• Prepare transaction specific and marketing materials (teasers, information memorandum, pitch books, corporate profiles, and industry data and analyses)

• Perform in-depth company and industry research supporting specific client engagements and marketing opportunities

like

Hello everyone, I am new the community , I have my own consultancy firm based in Abu Dhabi and looking to partner or follow rate with others to expand my client reach. My focus is in digital transformation, organization. Change and learning and development

like

Hi
Can anyone help me how should i explain my project on which i worked in my current company to the interviewer.would be very helpful if someone can help with the basic format from start to end or else can give example of their own project.

Thanks in advance

like

I currently working as project coordinator (on-site) for 3 months 10hrs everyday with package $75k, I want to move to remote or hybrid work but I only have 8 months of experience from my previous employer and I have completed my master's in construction management in 2021. Should I stay in my role a bit longer to gain experience or I am not able to find remote or hybrid matching my profile. Your advice and comments are much appreciated.

like

Currently staffed on a project near Reading, anyone up for dinner one of these days?

like

In TCS,After completing onboarding process and getting ur employee Id ,what's the process to get tagged into any project.Can you please share your experience?Can we reject any project if we don't find it not aligned to our expected work ?

like

Blockchain - is anyone actually working on a real Blockchain project or is it just concept selling at this time?

like

Other than MAANG, which companies are good for the data scientists in India (both product and service)? Good in terms of project complexity, rigor of analytical approach, scale of problems, implementation opportunities, usage of latest tech stack, innovation, mlops best practices etc.

like

We know some jurisdictions out there still have rules that think the digital age is the same as it was in the 90’s, so with how much work is being done remotely lately, what are your biggest ethics concerns? Have any ridiculous ethics opinions that have made you facepalm at how dated our practice can be sometimes?

like

My manager was sharing screens with me a week ago, and by mistake, he overshared some of his bachelor party plans. Now he is all embarrassed. I think his plans were funny, but I don't know how to don't make it awkward anymore. Any advice?

I am beyond stuck in my first 1.5 years of my career.

I was over promised opportunities at my first gig and then Covid hit. Leading me to have no portfolio worthy pieces from this 💩 agency with nothing great in sight. (place hasn’t won a pitch in my entire time here + lost clients)

I’m juggling re-vamping my site and a side project to hopefully make my book more robust.

With no kind of leadership or mentor, I’m just figuring out how to dig myself out of this hole. Any advice for this chump?

like

How can I change the project in Accenture?

like

I have an AUD exam tomorrow. Is there any last minute advice? I didnt have enough time to go over everything due to the client deadline 😥

like

Crown Social, in Seattle, is looking for a highly conceptual freelance (with full-time option) designer to dive in (this week preferably) on a new campaign for our Amazon client. Interested?

like

More Posts

like

Just got an offer Microsoft to work in Austin! What is the latest news on the return to work situation?

likehelpful

Does anyone work for Deloitte in the Ventures space or know someone who does? i’d love to have a chat

like

Can someone through some light on salary structure of Microsoft from level 56 till level 63,64.
Please include level 56,57 and 58 compulsorily as I am targeted towards these support engineer roles. Levels 59 and above we can Google also. I am in planning a switch to MS so please consider this as a legit question.

like

What level should I apply to if I’m a manager at B4? Considering applying

like

Anyone work in nonprofit tax? What exit opportunities are available with 3-6 years experience? Hoping to be promoted to senior this year and curious what options exist with this specialized skill set.

like
like

Hi Guys, I'm looking to switch my job but not getting any calls since last couple of months. Can anyone please refer me ?
Current position - QA Engineer
YOE - 4+ yrs
Notice Period - 60 days
Preferred location - Pune, Bengaluru, Remote
Tech Skills - Postgre sql, Python, software testing, manual testing.
JIRA, Bugzilla, Postman API, Katalon, Zephyr.
Regression testing, black box testing.

like

Can anyone refer to Cognizant ? Found some Salesforce roles I’m interested in

funnylike
like

What is salary range for l07 at TD?

like

Put my dog down last night. He’s had seizures for the last 4 years and been taking 9 pills a day. Last night he had a seizure that didn’t stop, irreparable damage. I found him in a storage unit abandoned and 5 years wasn’t enough with him. Absolutely heartbroken, never been through this before. Any advice? His name was Kylo. Called my mom for support who told me “it’s a dog not a human, you’re being immature.” My boyfriend and I could really use some kind words. We’re so lost can’t stop crying.

Post Photo
like

Just completed my last shift in the ICU. I'm glad to be shifting back to the Maternatity ward. It was exhausting, and emotionally draining working with such sick patients. I know the work we did made a big difference, but I'm glad to go back to my favorite role!

like

Does EY reimburse for internal travel? Eg team meetings ? About to join EY and may have to travel in the first month. Also, is driving an approved mode of transport and get mileage reimbursement ?

like

Best consulting firms for the retail and CPG industries?

like

There should be a fine for people who hog more than one charging port at airports. Also, Miami airport is Lame.

like

One of the ads I came across while looking for housing in the Bay Area

Post Photo
likefunny

What are your thoughts on Hult International Business School? I heard EYers can get their MBA through them for free virtually.

likefunny

Hi, amateur question. Is there any difference tax wise on letting an option expire vs sell for nothing? I assume both are tax losses that you can compensate with gains in other options right? TIA

like

Hi guys my joining is in 1st week of July. But till now I have not redi any communication regarding asset allocation or collecting asset from office etc. Can anyone please confirm when Barclays will share these details?

like

Additional Posts in Law

About to turn down a job offer that would nearly double my salary after speaking to several former associates of the firm and hearing some not so great things. The word “sweatshop” was used multiple times yet I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around it. This is truly “you can’t pay me enough to be part of that” in action. I am betting that I can get the same money at a place with a better culture - hopefully I am right!

like

I am having one of those days where I regret everything. I have been to 3 different law offices and I hated all of them. I’m wondering what my future is going to look like. Where do I go from here??

likehelpful

I am a new (lateral) associate at a small firm where everyone currently works from the office. When I started, I wasn’t told specific firm hours. I’ve tried to figure out when to come and go based upon when the partners arrive and leave, but their schedules are very inconsistent. The other associates don’t have helpful guidance for me. Assuming that if I ask the partners they’ll say to use my discretion, what are reasonable hours to keep?

like

Layoffs. Most big firms say they're sitting on a conservative pile of cash - which I believe is true - but work will obviously not return to pre-COVID levels in the short term, probably not even in the medium term. Are Biglaw layoffs coming?

likefunny

Anyone else just not at all thriving in their career? 3 years in and I have a resume that's appropriate for a 9th year. I am not great at what i do. Definitely don't ever get feedback I'm good at what I do. Why am I even in this career.

like
like

Partner went to bat for me! 🙂
Last night, I got a nastygram from a client who basically wanted to forego due diligence in a major buyout we’re helping him with. “Stop requesting documents and just draft me my docs.” But we literally don’t know who owns what right now, terrible corporate records. This morning, the partner told me he’ll probably fire this client, big pat on the back.

likeuplifting

How do you respond to friends/family/strangers who ask for legal advice?

like

How honest can you be with a recruiter? If you are looking for a job that will help tee you up for an in-house position, is it okay to say that? I'm meeting with a recruiter for the first time later today and I'm unsure about the whole process...

like

Has anyone used SoFi to pay down credit card debt? I am drowning in interest every month with my BofA card and getting nowhere fast. Would love any advice re: SoFi or paying off credit card debt in general. Thank you!

like

Put in my notice 2 weeks ago. Last days is this Friday. Partner I work for has been a total dick. Multiple other partners have reached out to say they’re sorry to see me go. Partner I work for has since been a bigger dick. Seriously tempted to tell him off and/or actually be honest in my exit interview with HR. I know that means “burning a bridge”, which is bad. Someone please talk me out of it. Genuinely.

like

All of my experience is in litigation but I think I might like real estate more. Any advice on how to sell myself to a real estate firm?

like

Anyone else here kinda like doing doc review? (In moderation of course)

likehelpful

So who else here is experiencing plummeting billable hours and exponential weight gain since this whole WFH thing started? Bought snacks for 30 days, finished in 48 hours.

likefunnysmart

What do you do about computer problems? It just took me 24 minutes to send a .1 email due to my computer constantly freezing. Is it worth entering that time into non-billable? Or do I just stop whining and work longer to make it up?

like

I found out a soon to be 2nd year associate got a 10k raise making his salary 110k now, while I, the soon to be 3rd year associate got a 2k raise making my salary 107k. So now the 2nd year male associate is making more money than me. How do I bring this up to the partners?

like

Billables are low this month. Like I have 65 billable hours in so far. I’ve messaged partners over the last week to try and get more cases but there are tons of new associates who were just onboarded and were at a low point for business. I’m freaking out

like

A friend was rewatching old episodes of Suits, which admittedly I’ve never seen. The main character starts at this law firm where associates are given cubicles not offices. There’s no way that’s accurate, right??? I have a cube but I’m just a lowly gov atty frm a state school LOL not a Harvard law alum at a reputable NYC firm

like

Recently hired Patent Agent and wanted to know if I am being fairly compensated and utilized. Training lasted a couple days where I immediately got assigned to draft +2 patent applications and +1 office action responses each week. Have no experience with 3D modeling programs so drawing diagrams and figures take a long time too. TOC < 80k and no annual bonus.

like

Anyone know anything about Kauffman borgees or Traub Lieberman? Reputations, working there, etc?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal