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Stress kills the cat, not curiosity.
EJ1, you are not being a fiduciary if you are transferring in kind, you are not being a fiduciary. As an OSJ, I would question this transfer for that. Putting them in any wrap account will cost more than the 401k. Being a fiduciary would tell them, “you like your investments, GREAT! It is cheaper to stay in the 401k.”
There is no justification for the transfer if you aren’t changing the investments.
Going to a Wrap IRA, explain why the wrap fee is needed? “Client wants more diversification.” Good to go! Still no need to transfer in kind.
Going to a IRA none wrap. Transferring in kind to then sell (for commission) to turn and then buy (for commission) is the definition of churning.
Btw, ALL of these points brought up are why the OP is having trouble if finding in kind transfer paperwork, because there is no logical, fiduciary reason to do that out of a 401k.
Most 401(k) plans won’t allow for an outgoing in kind transfer, especially if the funds within the plan are proprietary
Just curious, why are you doing an in kind transfer? Why not liquidate and then transfer?
Reason I ask is because if you are keeping them in the same funds/investments why even transfer? If you are going to switch them, bring over in cash then buy.
Yes, what's the point? Simply liquidate and send the money... why make life difficult?
I didn’t ask for your inputs about a Fiduciary duty. Which i am performing. Stick to the topic. Get off your soapboxes
I didn’t assume anything. I asked questions in an effort to try and get you to understand why it might be difficult to do what you are asking. I never question EJ compliance at all.
While you might think I’m a “uniformed jackass”, I was merely trying to get you to understand how your request would look to someone that is over you and some push back you might receive.
Im “uniformed”, the people at the 800 being confuse, along with the multiple WF people saying they never seen it. You are right, we are wrong, so go do you.
EJ1, I’m not questioning the transfer at all! We have all done transfers, I’m questioning the in kind part. I was at a seminar this morning with an ex DOL lawyer and this exact topic came up. The DOL (and soon to be SEC this fall) are just wanting clarification and documentation why these moves are made.
As for comp, I would just charge an hourly fee for advice on the 401k if they liked the options and not move it. But I have that option and I don’t know if EJ does.
Yeah dude no one does in kinds from 401ks hence why you're not getting a straight answer that you like ...next topic
Well Jones guys. It’s time to pack it up. A few advisors on Fishbowl have determined our workflow and documentation process don’t meet the fiduciary duty. I’m logging off to look for gainful employment.
Maybe we should start opening accounts and credit cards without asking people...oh, too soon? My bad
This will be my last post on this thread because, frankly, it’s become childish. Or the OP had posted this just to troll as we have seen from others.
I have found the vast majority of FA on fishbowl are here to help and to gain knowledge. It is a place that more seasoned advisors can pass knowledge on to younger advisors in a sincere attempt to help. To try and make this entire industry better.
I personally have never bashed a firm. I have repeated said there is no bad firm, but just bad fits between advisors and firms.
Your push back from a simple question of why shows that you don’t actually want answers from this type of forum. As someone else said, your question is about operations and should be directed to back office help. There is nothing wrong with back office but if they were as knowledgeable about this industry as we all are, they wouldn’t be back office. So forgive us that took your "3rd grade” question and tried to apply our “college” knowledge to it. No one was attacking you. I didn’t even bring up fiduciary, a fellow EJ poster did. But if you are sincere (and not trolling) and can’t handle some constructive questions in return, maybe this isn’t the profession for you.
95% of advisors across the board are trying to do what’s best for their clients and the public in general, you must be in the other 5%....
Good luck to all on this thread. You can find me in other, more serious ones.
It’s called DTC. Some plans are set up for in-kind. It’s rare but I have had clients that have this. Remember all 401k plans are different. Your firm should have a DTC code to send the assets to. Call your support line for more info
They’re not proprietary. They’re American funds and stocks. The TPA confirmed in kind is available.
I’m at WFA, 10 yrs. I’ve never seen an in kind 401k roll to/from Wells Fargo. Not saying it isn’t possible, but never seen it.
Where is the 401k at within WF? That matters too. If it’s a WFA acct that’s one thing. If it’s with WF Shareowner Services (where 99% are) then I don’t think you’d be able to roll in-kind
Can’t do in kind transfer from 401k with funds can do in kind with company stock, I think the TPA is wrong
I’ll let you know
I believe you can do an in-kind roll to an IRA at Am Funds then submit for IRA-IRA transfer but it needs to be at NAV. I’ve done 5-6 if them this year but the catch was it was already an Am Funds 401k plan. However it should t matter if it was Wells or not. Call your Am Funds 401k wholesaler
It’s called being a fiduciary...if the client has the option to do in kind and is pleased with the existing funds, liquidating and doing anything other than a wrap account or in kind transfer is conflict of interest. However you could probably liquidate and buy back in at NAV
MP1, you don’t know the whole situation and I don’t need to explain it here. You don’t know what type of accounts they are moving to on the EJ side. Our field supervision and compliance department to a great job. No one is churning accounts for commission. You sound like an uninformed jackass. Don’t assume you know everything.
Wow OP...defensive much?! Take it easy man. And Managing Parter, yes you are partially correct, it is more expensive in a wrap, but if they value you and want advice and guidance, it’s what we do. Expensive or not. If your logic were completely accurate then no one would be doing rollovers.
There absolutely IS justification for the transfer...but if they have option to do in-kind, which I have literally done six times in the last year, then they should go to mutual fund select account