Related Posts
I have an offer from Deutsche Bank, KPMG & Deloitte.
Keeping the package aside, which company is better in terms of growth, hikes, work-life balance?
Please share your inputs, its my first switch so I'm anxious about making the right choice. 😅
Deutsche Bank KPMG KPMG India Deloitte Deloitte USI Deloitte India KGS
More Posts
How hard is the path from lit to GC?
McKinsey & Company Hey folks!
Was wondering what sort of life sciences projects does usually the Boston Consulting Group and McKinsey & Company take on?
Commercial, access and pricing, M&A, transformation, implementation? (all of them perhaps?)
Basically, what would someone with an LS background be mainly working on in these firms on a day-to-day basis?
Thanks!
Community Builder
Additional Posts in Big Law
Subject Expert
Name and shame the firms doing stealth lay-offs.
Mentor
Coach
Coach
White collar folks - how busy are you guys now?
Mentor
New to Fishbowl?
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Of things so that I can try and create time for dinner and spending time for the evening and on weekends to split the work versus working in long blocks but no matter what I do she is unhappy with my work schedule. I’ve honestly been trying to find an in-house gig with little to no success (6th year corporate, amlaw 50 firm - I think my background is suited for at least some jobs but my network is small and so just getting an interview/foot in the door has been a challenge). I’m at a loss because we’re in a high cost of living city and for reasons I can’t get into here we can’t relocate, so I can’t quit plus it’ll destroy my ability to land another gig, but it’s breaking my heart to see my wife so unhappy. I am open to hearing any and all suggestions because I am miserable too.
Mentor
Couples counseling.
You do not control your schedule. You are doing your best. How can she adjust expectations somewhat?
Subject Expert
I disagree with the suggestions to try and switch firms. You can probably get a job easily but switching as a senior lateral is difficult and stressful, you will miss all your forms/precedents and lose your relationships with partners and clients (and the cache you have built up with them to mess up on occasion and coast a bit). Especially if you’re trying to go in-house soon, I’d try and stick it out a bit longer so you have fewer moves on your resume.
Also disagree with the suggestions that she needs to just suck it up and be more accepting bc this is what it is, although I’m a bit surprised if she’s surprised since it must have been similar while you were dating and engaged? Has stuff changed?
Good on you for trying this hard. I hope she appreciates that.
Maybe we can help you with your in-house move. What is your background (beyond just corporate) and what kind of jobs are you applying to/where are you looking? If your subfield not doing well in the pandemic and next year will be better? I would have thought general corporate out of biglaw in a major market would be easy enough.
I find goinhouse and LinkedIn to be good places to look. Also, all your existing clients. Maybe set up informational interviews with people in-house from your law school/law firm/your existing clients.
How are you doing with the firm? Do you have any trusted partners you could ask to help you go-in-house with a client? It is win win for them as they get to strengthen the relationship and impress the client if firm and client both think you are good and you send work their way in the future. Do you seem to be a good match for what you’re applying to and you’re just not getting attention? Partners have connections that can help you if that’s the only issue. Also, milk any connections (even something as small as same law school or law firm alums - not much to lose for them to at least take a look at your resume and pass you along if you seem a decent fit). However, it is a bit of a one way street, you probably can’t get back on partner track (in their minds) once you ask.
I would tell everyone you are looking, honestly, it is risky, but it’s also the best way to get work.
Coach
That is biglaw. Only so much “setting boundaries” you can do, especially in that terrible but frequent situation of little work all day or week and then it is dumped in you at 6pm or on Friday night. Some of that is bad management by others but a lot of it is driven by clients.
Mentor
Did you guys live together before marriage? I would think she would have known what to expect, unless you've been busier than ever this year (which could be the case since you mentioned you were transactional) or because she has more free time due to quarantine?
Coach
Can you better take advantage of your slow periods with WFH? Like, when I’m slow, my husband and I will order takeout and have a long lunch together (his job is less demanding than mine), which makes missing dinner together less frustrating.
Since you mentioned wanting to leave, could you just coast for awhile?
Coach
Ah I’m really sorry associate, that sucks. WFH has helped my personal life tremendously and I’m very sorry that isn’t the case for you.
Could you coast for a bit and lateral to a different firm? It would give you probably at least a month or two of slow ramp up time, and maybe you could find a firm with better work/life balance.
First off, I’m super sorry to hear that. That must be tough. I’m an associate in big law and so is my fiancé. Even though we both understand each other and our respective work schedules, it can still be very frustrating when work overwhelms our lives and keeps us from spending time with one another. We both live in New York now, but we both agreed to move to Florida near our families and get slightly chiller jobs so our careers don’t ruin our relationship.
Not sure which firm you are at currently, or which city, but have you considered moving to another firm? At the very least it’ll give you a solid month or so where you’re much slower than usual, and maybe you can find a firm that’s a bit lower ranked but allows for a better work-life balance. Jumping to another firm from big law is *very* easy (I just did it; I had 4 offers from firms, 2 big law and 2 regional, after 2 weeks of interviews). Maybe it’s your firm that is taking advantage of you (or your previous willingness to negate your own boundaries) and you need a fresh start somewhere else where you can set new expectations.
Also engaged to another biglaw associate! I thought it’d make things easier, but it’s still bad. COVID means there’s been less to do, but there was rarely a time where had plans together/with others that a work ‘emergency’ for one of us wouldn’t derail or almost derail the whole thing.
There is a certain element of these jobs that is unavoidably toxic to functional interpersonal relationships. That’s why we both are looking to leave in the short/medium term.
We did half of the living together overlapped with covid shutdown, work from home and having few outlets to do any activities away from home like travel, eating out, seeing friends etc. which has I’m sure had a big impact here too and while I was busy before, it was much more predictable and steady whereas for much of covid it has been the situation described above, ie lots of late afternoon/end of week work dumps plus the lack of boundaries that seems to have become a thing with wfh as unfortunately most of the senior attorneys I work with still think us associates are having a vacation because we’re working from home
I’m sorry it’s taking a toll on you like this. One suggestion that’s worked for me in the past is to set aside an evening (we did Tuesdays because nobody ever needs something urgently on Tuesday night) every other week to do something during a set time (5:30-8pm). The caveat with that was I had my fiancé choose the activity or pick what he wanted to do since he had more time to think about it.
As far as trying to transfer in-house, you should join as many industry groups (not bar groups or anything where there are a bunch of other lawyers) so you can personally get to know people who work at companies that might be looking for in-house counsel.
I have been there too if it helps. No easy solutions here but maybe show her this set of responses? This kind of invasion of home life is typical in big law. There is only so much you can do. It’s hard on a lot of people’s marriages. If she’s reading, it really is true that there’s not a lot you can do about this and the experience is pretty universal. It sucks for everyone. Once you’re more senior you can smooth your own work out a little but still have to jump when the client demands if. Be careful changing jobs. This is common in most big law and a lot of smaller firms will pull the same crap and pay you less. In house and government positions can be better though not universally so, but they’re few and far between without the connections you get from big law. Hang in there. Ask her to be understanding but also be understanding with her. When they told you this would happen in law school you didn’t believe it either.
Also if you’re doing in house it is all through connections. You can tell people at work and ask for help. You never know who is friends with a hiring partner. And partners are always happy to try to place associates who will give them work.