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Going back at 130 makes no sense. You told them you needed 135-140 (I agree with previous poster that countering with a range is not productive); that was either true or it was not, if you go back at 130 it means you were just haggling and for me would not reflect well on you unless you couple it with another ask that makes your first request real.
I agree with other posters that changing the conversation makes most sense; a preferable long term solution to a signing bonus would be a higher annual bonus target - Ie - it it’s currently 20% of your base ask for 30%. Something that gives you an opportunity to get closer to the annual amount you said you needed.
Don’t beat yourself up OP. You’re in a great spot- plenty of folk looking for work right now and you’re getting to learn very early in your career how many different levers there are in salary negotiation! So much opportunity!
My 2c, assuming you can live on the base they’ve offered, would be to say something like “thank you so much, I appreciate the offer and I’m excited to join the firm. The total comp is a little lower than I was hoping, is there room to move on the annual bonus (either to a higher annual target or higher target on origination - whatever makes most sense for your practice) - I know I can bring value and I love the opportunity to align my comp drivers to those of the firm”
But if they say no, be willing to say something like the following very quickly “no problem, thank you for the consideration, I trust we can have this discussion again in a year once I’ve had opportunity to show you how much value I can bring”
This all assumes you can live on the base. We’re rooting for you. Be sure to report back!
I have to say associate that most partners arent sweating $5000 so I find some of the responses reflective of the industry attitude that the market is flooded, be grateful you are offered a job. I say f* that. You are a commodity. They obviously want people with your skills or background because they have hired 7 people with the same background. You can negotiate for something else to make up that $5k. Do not fall for the bonus or review suggestions. For the bonus, the firm can say business was bad that year (accounts receivable)—most firms dont share that info with lowly associates. As for the review, same thing. The firm is a business and they will give the lowest number they think you will take. Dont leave money on the table where you will have to work 1-2 years to be at your desired salary. Look at other benefits like % of health insurance paid, life insurance, short term disability, vacation days, and business development. A way to open the door to show youre reasonable to counter is to see what the salary includes...if the firm doesnt pay for health insurance or only pays 50%, there is your reason to counter for more $. It doesnt make you greedy to say that your salary range took into consideration that the firm paid 100% of your health insurance and if it only pays 50%, thats coming out of your pocket. Also, be prepared to present salary surveys to show your value. Salary is just one part of your compensation. Health insurance can be $300-500 a month. Also, do they pay for vision or dental insurance? These are all things that play a role in salary negotiations.
Same. I am a female minority attorney. I have countered every job offer I have received but one. And my offers were not rescinded. Yes—youre taking a risk but if its worth it to you, take the risk. I am not going to be left wondering if I should have asked for more. Next time, when asked about salary, you should give a number but say that it depends on the total benefit package including the above items. This leaves wiggle room. Good luck!!
Please let us know how it goes.
Chief
Sounds like employer met you right in the middle of its initial offer and your counter (FYI countering with a range is not productive as folks will be looking at your bottom line).
Go ahead and ask but be prepared to accept the job at 125 or even 115 if you really want it.
I don’t think you need to add that you will accept 130 when you offer it, I would hope you’d accept any number you offer.
I disagree with respect to adding that you are prepared to accept the offer at 130. I think they are much more likely to give u the extra $5k if they know it will end negotiations. For my current job, I asked for a much higher signing bonus but made it clear that I would accept at that price. They gave me exactly what I asked for.
I have found there are generally three types of negotiators: people who say what they want, people who angle for what they want, and people who dont know what they want.
Which one are you?
If you say you need 135 to take a job, then you need 135 to take a job. That's the whole point of telling someone the compensation you need to accept an offer, and anything other than standing by that number just says you're trying to play games.
Your counter offer of a "range" communicates to me, and likely to your potential employer, that you're the second kind of person - you're angling for what you want. Their counteroffer is exactly meeting you in the middle, and an appropriate response to meet this kind of approach.
You could also not know what you want, and that's okay. As other have pointed out this isnt like a settlement negotiation where you ask for 800k and they offer you 125, the gap between you and your employer is only 5k. In the grand scheme of things, 5k isnt going to be your downfall, and if it is likely to be, then the correct answer is to see option #1 and stand your ground or find another job.
Always know what you want before negotiating. A little preparation makes the decision to walk away or compromise much easier.
Really as an employer I would pull your offer. What experience do you have? The market is flooded. Good luck but your greed will ruin you.
Yeah only employers can negotiate, employees are supposed to beg!
Beg employee, beg, and sing a sonnet to the superiority of your masters while you are at it.
(OP: if you can take 125 id accept while also negotiating a end of year review revisit to salary, basically just telegraphing you are hoping for a raise given you are accepting below range)
damn I was not asking for enough during mine
I am probably too late to help, since these conversations move quickly. I think you should feel free to counter, ask for a signing bonus, ask for a larger bonus, or a larger merit increase at annual review time - all good suggestions you got from this group.
In my experience hiring and being hired, by the time the employer extends you an offer, it really likes you and has probably cut most of the other candidates loose. It’s not going to rescind your offer over $5k. If it does, you probably wouldn’t like working there anyway.
Please let us all know how it turns out! Good luck!
Thank you so much!
If I was the employer or hiring partner, and you were haggling over an extra $5k after I went up $10k, I wouldn’t think highly of you and would think you’re greedy. After tax, you’re really not losing much, but losing a lot of face imo
Good thing you not the hiring partner then but a junior associate! Good luck!
The difference in opinion here shows it really depends on the firm/partners and how they will react. They may say $125K is their final offer. If you will be resentful and undervalued at anything lower than $130K, don’t take the job. Telling them you need at least $130K and you will verbally accept at that number seems reasonable to me. Be ready for them to go back to $125K though.
Greed kills! Accept the offer and ask for a 90 day review for the additional 5
What market? Speciality? Firm or in-house ?
They’re getting you cheap for NYC in my opinion.
I was in this situation once, and when I looked at the taxes and net impact it was minimal. I took the offer but said, I’ll take this offer because the net impact of what I’m really seeking is minimal and you will see how amazing I am and give me a raise in 6 months. I ended up getting an increase of $20k in 6 months.
I would not ask for another number, it’s not worth losing the job. If you want ask for a signing bonus or try to negotiate something else like bonus for originations but the 5k difference is not worth it.
$5,000 is not a lot in the long term scheme of things. You know the players. If you can afford to risk losing the offer then make the play. Sounds like they made a reasonable counter. Unless there is something unique employers know there is always another option. This is more about you then the employer. You probably already know what you should do.
Thank you! I think unfortunately I have already tipped my hand! I have numerous friends at this firm! And by numerous I mean like 7 friends in the practice group! We all met at a prestigious fellowship in a federal agency! So this is a huge motivator for me too....but darn at I wanted to get to $130 in base....
If this is a position you are excited about and this compensation structure works for your expenses, I agree with the comments that you should accept the counteroffer on salary. Tell them you are accepting the offer and ask if there is any room for a signing bonus or incentive compensation structure. Obviously that will not be great for salary raises, as increases are generally a percentage increase over the base salary. Good luck! And congratulations: it is not easy to receive a new offer during these very strange times.
Thank you! Am coming here from a big firm where I was desperately unhappy and am ready for a change but $130K would be great!
Yeah, the tax makes it like 1k extra. If
I would have to agree that you have already given a target, they countered. I would not counter again because you already likely made it clear you know others at the firm which gives the firm leverage, they know you want the job and they will likely stick to the $125k. I do a great deal of contract negotiations and always look for leverage. Honestly, if you really needed 130k, you should have made that clear or chosen a range above where you need to be, expecting them to offer slightly less. Acceptance with a thank you, and let them know you will exceed their expectations, and keep looking...always looking.
There are many reasons why the firm may not be able to get to that number even if the partner(s) who want to hire you think you’re worth it. EG they don’t want other associates at your level finding out you make more than them, or others on committee from a diff department wondering why they’re paying you $x more than the last associate hired for their dept. Just keep that in mind.
Don’t nickel and dime over $5k. Either hold firm or accept the offer. I’d suggest the latter and then prove to them you are worth it and make it up in bonus and long term goodwill that you build with your new team.
You are expected to negotiate. You’re a lawyer. It would be odd if you didn’t. Tell them you’ll accept their 125K offer with an automatic bump to 135K in January, 2021.