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Any advice for 25 yr old like me?
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Do any of the big L&E firms have a WFH policy?
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I know it's a reach but feel free to hang that shingle and set yourself up as a private consultant. This is also a great time to advocate for a cause and that could lead to a career in another field. I have plenty of friends who have taken their JD and done other work with it. I have others who killed themselves for years because they didn't get the calls from the type of firm they would consider a success only to get in there and realize they weren't hired because they weren't a good fit and they turned out to hate it. Clerking also presents a viable option for getting experience that firms/clients find attractive. I know you're frustrated, I had a similar experience coming out, but take the positive attitude and the support of people here as a sign. It will get better if you try each day and broaden your approach. I'm sorry you've had so much of a struggle to date but careers are long and you may yet win out in the end.
Thank you so much for your reassurance. I currently volunteer as a private consultant to keep busy though finding clients that can afford to pay anything has been slow. My work has all been pro bono so far, but I understand it takes time for things to get started, so I’m patient with it though I wish for the guarantee and stability of income that comes with working for a firm or company.
I’m a hiring partner at an AM 200 firm, so I don’t speak for everyone. First things first, hiring right now at many firms, especially at a junior level, has been scaled back if not abandoned. As such, it’s not you. Also, although you have been out of work for a while, you are competing against attorneys of your same year that have 1-2 years of experience at another law firm who just got let go.
Next, industry experience is very important. While it is important that you can do, for example, a license agreement, I would want to know if you know how to do a license in XYZ industry with ABC type of clients. I say this to let you know that you need to focus on an industry and get it that industry. I’m not saying you have not, but if you have not, take every job you can.
Last, but not least, I’ll leave you with this story: I have a friend who got arrested for something drinking related during law school. When he graduated, he failed the bar and when he passed, they made him wait a year because of character and fitness. Then the only job he could get was working at a state agency in a very low position. Over the course of three years he played the politics, worked hard, and moved his way up to pretty high in the agency. Then one day one of the highest paying firms in his city was looking for an associate who always went up against said agency. He joined, tripled his salary, and is now doing his thing.
You can give up if you want to, but just know your not alone and it can be done. Don’t give up.
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Honestly, just use this opportunity to get out of law. Unless you happen to get extremely lucky, it’s a bad investment of your time and money. I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone would choose to go to law school after the bottom fell out in 2008.
Law school is arguably a bad investment. However, if you enjoy it and work at it over forty years, you’ll probably come out ahead. A career only partially a financial consideration. As long as you can pay the bills, you have flexibility.
That being said, I went into law expecting more money but investing relatively little. In a purely financial sense, it was an okay move for me. But I don’t like the work. And I’m slowly working toward an exit. (7 years into practice.) The money would be good and relatively guaranteed if I stayed put. But I’m fed up. I’ll take my chances elsewhere.
My point in saying this is plenty of people like me don’t like their work but they stay put because the money’s better than what they think the alternative is. It might be a hard slog for a while, but if you genuinely want to do the work, people will eventually see that. Provided you get out there and promote yourself, too. My firm doesn’t care about “passion,” but they desperately want to avoid turnover. If you can persuade a firm you’re there because you want to be there and not just for a paycheck, that goes a long way. Especially for smaller and mid-sized firms.
Fishbowl is a great community but it’s so intimidating seeing all these people who don’t have to worry about their next meal. I feel like an imposter, like I don’t even deserve my degree or my law license. I usually do surveys and gig work online to try to make what I can for money but this has gone on too long. It’s been years and there’s only so many cold and warm emails you can send out that end up not working out or becoming more unpaid work. I’m at my wits ends and I don’t know how to fix it!
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Are you just venting about your situation (totally fine to be doing that, it’s therapeutic sometimes) or are seeking advice on what to do/what others would do in your situation?
Transactional or in-house. I have a soft IP and privacy background.
Can you look for another market? Have you had someone do a mock interview to see if you are not answering questions correctly? Is it your resume?
I have with a few of my mentors and career services. They can’t figure it out other than just remind me the economy must be bad and law is competitive. I didn’t go to a top school.
I’ve been putting in apps all over including locally, law jobs, paralegal, retail sales, dish washing. I don’t know what’s wrong. I can get volunteer attorney work just fine though so I’ve been doing legal work these last few years, just nothing paid. Plenty of positive references. Maybe I’m being overly introduced as free labor and being taken advantage?
Have you tried state atty, public defender etc? May not be a career but awesome experience. Join some atty groups in your area and network.
I’m in a handful of groups/associations, networking is no problem for me. I’ve considered state jobs, but I don’t meet the hard qualifications for what’s currently listed. I rely on public transit and have never had issues in the past with other employers over it, but many of the state jobs require you have your own car regardless, which I just can’t afford right now. I’d apply for court appointments, but I have no civil or criminal trial background, so I’m waiting for some free CLEs to come up on my calendar to address that.
If you are in a practice area where its practical, I would agree with hanging your own shingle. I was unemployed for a while out of law school and started taking on my own clients and then leveraged a book of business into a job at a firm, but I could have just as well built up my practice.
If you have been working for free, then you at least have some experience. Instead of finding a firm to hire you, it may be more productive to find clients to hire you.
This is what I’m working on currently though my clients are pro bono at the moment. I’m hoping eventually I’ll have business I can offer to join a firm with. It’s been a slow process.
I’ve been told I’m good at what I do and I have had people seek me out specifically for the experience I have, but I struggle marketing myself and asking for money, so that’s the next step to figure out. A lot of those that reach out to me come from modest means so it’s challenging.
How long was your delay to take the bar? For example, in Texas, most graduates take it in July after a May graduation and then are licensed in Nov. I believe of that year. Also, do you address the gap between graduation and your license date in your cover letter? If not, some firms will assume you took the bar but failed.
In my office, and in most firms of more than ten attorneys, there’s an office manager or HR person. They’re often the first level of review. You can make your cover letter whatever you think is appropriate. But it can help to get in touch directly with this first-level person. They’re not going to make any decisions, but they can help get you to an interview.
Maybe it is the free labor thing but you should be able to get even a less glamorous role-- is your practice area niche? Are you being picky with firms? What state are you in?
I don’t want to disclose information about me on here, which is one of the reasons I’ve made this rant thread anonymously, but my background is in transactional areas with in-house experience.
I have been applying to places out of my location because there are not places locally hiring. That may be some of the hinderance, though with COVID I am hoping temporary remote opportunities may help me afford relocating to a better local market.
You might want to try working for an insurance company. They often hire people with law degrees. You can then move into their in-house law department
I second the “hang your own shingle.”
It took me a couple years to get the law job I wanted (I went to a top school but was picky and didn't interview well). If it's something you really want, then I encourage you to stick with it and don't sell yourself short.
I assume you are skilled in at least one area of law. Have you try to become a contract lawyer. Connect your self to a political figure work for him. These individuals if good might have the ability to put in a public sector as a good luck. Do not get depress stay the course. Best of luck to you.
What geographical area are you in?
Same here. I had a major car accident right before my last semester of law school (2009) that left me with multiple injuries including a concussion. Then, the recession hit, and I was unemployed for 3 years. After my Mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, I ended up working in retail then in HR so I could care for her. It's only been in the last 2 years that I've been able to get back into the legal field but as a paralegal (until I get licensed). Along the way, I've discovered other options besides being a "traditional" attorney. Try temp agencies--there are jobs out there that don't get posted, a good recruiter will know how to sell your skills, and it's a great way to get your foot in the door. Also, get licensed (if it's required in your state) as a Mediator or Guardian; you can make some connections while beefing up your resume. Also consider "non-legal" legal jobs--in Claims for insurance companies, as a Compliance Officer for corporations, doing anything in a government agency, etc. And consider modifying your resume if you just need any job for now; sometimes, the JD scares hiring managers off. I have a resume that includes my JD and one that doesn't (this tip came from a former hiring manager at my state's workforce commission). Get an interview. Get the job. Keep looking. Don't give up.