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Advice needed - boyfriend has almost 3.5 years of finance experience at a bank. Interviewed for PwC valuation senior associate and now recruiter says they want to hire him at “experienced associate” because he has no valuation experience. Is this too big of a step backwards in career? Should he push back and see if it gets him anywhere? If he does accept Associate, is it reasonable to ask for written, definitive timeline (1 year?) for promo to Senior upon meeting standards? Help!
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Perhaps when you start a job, you can ask your client at what rate they intend to bill you out and make sure that they are filling you out at more than they are paying you. If not, then clarify that your work is a straight pass-through to the end user/their client.
I would put in writing that they understand what your rate is, and that irrespective of whether their client pays for your rate or not they understand (the attorney/law firm) is responsible for paying you.
All of this seems obvious and should be understood, but sometimes forcing people to sign a document stating the terms of the arrangement causes them to realize the cost involved.
My former firm likes to send these kind of bills directly to the client to pay. The clients are almost always slow pays.
AI is going to have a huge impact on discovery jobs
I’m very familiar with Ai, and I use it for some things where it makes sense, but it’s certainly not going to be able to take over drafting discovery responses. I’d love to see it chase clients for 5 years worth of financials or other documentation, and ai can’t craft responses that are specific to details of a case unless you provide it with the details. Even then, you’ll be doing cleanup and revisions.
If you’re doing paralegal work I don’t think you can charge like a 28 year attorney.
"Raked over the coals"? Calm down, not one post in this thread is raking you over the coals. If you want advice from attorneys, you need to give all the facts, thats lawyering 101. We aren't owed anything, but we won't give advice without all the facts. Dont want to give all the facts, then you don't get advice, pretty f*ckin simple. It seems you feel you are owed advice with giving vague details of the situation and you came here to rake everyone over the coals for not giving it to you.
If you’re dealing with solos they’re kind of poor until they close the case or another case. Probably don’t want to pay much until closer to settlement.
That’s fair, to a point. Most of the solos I’ve worked for are doing very well for themselves. I’ve also done work for small firms that just liked the idea of compartmentalizing their discovery so they/staff could put that time elsewhere.
Rising Star
Maybe you’re just charging too much? You say it saves clients money but clearly there is a disconnect somewhere.
It’s not charging too much when the attorney knows my rate up front and agrees to it.
I worked for firms for years and only one was ever diligent about paying their bills to outside services like court reporters, process servers, etc. but they were never told they were too expensive.
Attorneys simply don’t like parting with money for having work done that they know they could do themselves, if they had the time.
Discovery folks get paid as little as $20 an hour. What are you charging?
I’m not sure that’s anything to be proud of and is making my point in spades. They’d make more bartending in a busy club. Few attorneys enjoy doing discovery and they don’t do it well. Paying a fair rate for tedious work needs to be the norm, especially when that time is being billed at a much higher rate to the client.
I have looked this over. A few thoughts occur to me.
1) Are you undervaluing your services? That is, are you charging less per hour than you should? It seems paradoxical, but I find people undervalue services they pay very little for.
2) Are you providing clear estimates of the time you will take on your tasks?
3) Are you spending too long on these tasks?
I’m certain I’m undervaluing what I offer, but I also recognize that very few, if any, attorneys would pay me what I’m actually worth. I was being billed out at $175/hr 17 years ago prior to me going to law school. I’m not charging that, but I’m definitely not working for $50/hr either. There just don’t seem to be many willing to part with the work and prefer to drown than pay someone a fair rate.
I definitely provide clear estimates. Unfortunately, the nature of discovery means you may have to put a lot more time in than you realized once you actually start working, and rarely have I dealt with attorneys who even looked at the discovery they need to respond to before handing it to me. If 5 years of financial accounts or specific expenses are being requested and someone has 2-3 accounts and someone else has 12, that’s a huge time difference. I discuss it with the attorney first when I run into those situations so they can decide how to proceed.
As far as spending too long… it depends on the attorney and how well their files are organized, if they provide info they should have or I need to spend time tracking it down myself, and how much info needs to be provided in answers/responses. I’ve had cases that vastly exceeded the allowable number of interrogatories where an attorney told me to cut it off at the limit, and others who have told me to answer everything as a strategic move. If there are 40 requests for production asking for voluminous records that I receive completely out of order, need redactions and bates numbering, that’s going to take much longer than 15 routine requests.
This much for sure: If you can't align your cost with client expectations, you're going to have trouble as a business. Different clients, different needs, different budgets. you need to understand and align before you begin the work, and then you need to deliver.
Do you change your hourly rate to accommodate clients who say they can only pay you $300 to handle a case that would require months of work? It’s the attorney’s job to know what their clients can afford. If their clients are paying their attorney $250/hr (likely more) then the attorney knows whether they can afford my lower rate.
My rate is disclosed up front. I ballpark the number of hours it’ll take. I take a retainer and provide updates as I go so they can gauge their budget. Nothing about what I’m billing or why is a surprise from the very beginning so I’m not seeing your point here.
This isn’t home building where a client wants 3,000 sq ft for $500,000 and the builder has various grades of finishes to choose from to stay within budget. Discovery has to be responded to in full, unless you prefer spending money arguing a motion to compel when it’s late, incomplete, etc.
I’d pick my clients more carefully. If you have an adequate workflow, why do you care about what your worst clients think?
Because a lot of paralegals are horriable.
I only realized that after I saw a couple of work product from other paralegals. Hard to find a good one out there.
Do you get a retainer paid before you turn on your computer? If not, why not?
And up the retainer if you do.
It is something needs no discussion for a wise lawyer should have its own policy to make reaonable adjustment of his services and the remuniration. You can't measure your intellectual work in terms of money, however, u can charge a price fitting the circumstance around u.
What do you mean that you "do discovery remotely?" Do you code documents? Troubleshoot workspaces? Consult in motions in limine?
No, I draft initial ROGS/RFP and answers/responses, and assemble exhibit packages. I just do it all electronically.
How much are you charging & how complex are the cases that you’re working on?
Complexity varies, which means the time it takes to complete also varies. I’m not posting my rate. I was billed out as a paralegal 15 years ago at the rate I’m charging. That said, a $500/hr solo attorney is going to bill $500/hr to do the exact same work. I charge less than even baby attorneys working their first job out of law school who know next to nothing. 🤷🏻♀️
Next!
Are we talking about divorce attorneys specifically?
Clients love to litigate until the bill comes in
Discovery demands need to be more tightly supervised for everyone's sake