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Bowl Leader
I am on bench from 1 nov 2022. I am PA.
Faced this weird behaviour from Optum recently. Gave interview for Data Scientist position. HR said feedback is positive. Asked for documents. It's been month now since I have shared the documents. I have no update on the offer. Today I called HR, she called me back saying the position is on hold due to recalibration in team, She has shared interview feedbacks to other teams and will get back to me in couple of days. I am clueless now. My last working day is approaching (In a month). Any Help??
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Why are read only documents called “riders?”
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Unless you have some sort of specialized skill set outside of being a lawyer (for example, a science background for IP work), I can’t think of any reason that could justify a small firm paying a 1st year associate 130K in salary. Unless it’s a very successful boutique, this amount seems outrageous at this level of experience. The fact that equity is even mentioned in this question is frankly even more absurd. If I were a partner at a law firm of any size and a law clerk who isn’t even a lawyer yet asked me for equity to work for me, I’d be shocked and offended. I don’t want to be a dick because I didn’t know anything about legal practice when I first started either, but I think you need to adjust your expectations if you want to work at this firm. In any market, what you’re looking for seems unreasonable at your level of experience. What market are you in?
If you want to negotiate a higher salary, I think your only possibility is to negotiate some percentage of business you originate if that’s something you think you can do.
A1 - maybe offended isn’t the right word. I’d be put off the gall of the ask. I wouldn’t take it personally since it doesn’t say anything about me but would definitely make me think the person in question has pretty poor judgment to think that’s anywhere near reasonable as a first year.
I work at a small firm as the midlevel associate (8 years). We have about 20 attorneys, full service. 1500 hours per year requirement, but nothing bad happens if you don't make target. To be honest, the firm is fine if you bill 1300 hours. It values skills and business development more in years 1-3. Honestly, most 1-3 year lawyers can do decent file work, but they can't generate business or run complex files independently. This is fine, I wouldn't expect them to do that.
I happened to hear about our 1-3 year juniors who banded together this year to demand $30k salary increases this year. Not one of them was on track to meet even the modest target. One of them does work weekends. He averages about 90-100 hours per month. The other one I've seen work really hard for one month (200 hours) then drop down down to 90-110 for the rest of the year. They have all been with the firm 1-2 years. They are nice juniors, but they don't know much about the business side of running a law practice yet.
In short, they were given mid-year raises ($20k each), but the partners did have higher expectations regarding their hours and availability. It's been two months since their raises and there has been no noticeable change to their work product or hours. We are busy right now (last month was 180 for me, this one will be 160- not big law hours but I can't bill everything to the client). None of the partners are pleased with any of the three juniors for different reasons. I think that even though they got their substantial raises early, the relationship was damaged between partner and associates. The partners felt there was a lack of trust and willingness to work from the juniors, but they decided to try raising them anyways. The cost was a lot for a small firm. Partners can take personal offence to asking for large raises in a small firm environment.
I fully support being paid fairly and advocating for your income. Just be careful in how you approach the discussion. It can have unknown consequences. Unless you really like the firm you are currently working with and they like you, I think lateralling to get the pay raise would be better.
I got my big bump in small law by going on percentage (juniors are salaried as they generally have no business sense, so percentage is really harsh for them), but that was after 4 years of choosing to take at risk work for the trial and depo experience. Now I'm independent with my own modest book of work. I don't quite make as much as BL associates my year (they are about $35-$50k ahead of me), but the trade off is that I have my own practice in the areas that I like. I am fed about half my work, the other half I generate myself. I can also tax plan since I am incorporated, which is a big bonus.
1500 sounds like a dream. I bill more than they do and I’m just an intern at a similar sized firm…and I don’t even have to work that hard to hit that.
Rising Star
OP if it was my small firm, I would tell you to go to the midsize firm.
Depending on where you’re located, $100k is not an unrealistic salary for a first year at a small firm. I started at a firm with about 15 attorneys and first year salary was $120k for 1500 billable. You could check Robert half and see what the 25th, 50th, and 75th percentile for salaries are in your region.
Unless you have some special experience or skill that other attorneys at your level don’t have at the firm, it might not be possible to successfully negotiated a higher salary. My firm adjusted their pay scale only when a really influential associate left for higher pay (they were originally paying less than 6 figures for a first year). And I was also able to negotiate a level bump in pay when our team was bleeding associates and I was the only one left.
Training contract for $100k+? Wtf it's like €40k in Ireland
Not the same thing
You are not going to get equity. That’s just not a reasonable ask. Negotiate for as high salary as you can. If you get an offer you like better, take it. If you don’t get a better offer, stay at this firm, learn as much as you can, and start looking in a year.