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Hello all,
Would like to know specifically about Queer inclusion at SocGen Societe Generale. What is the attitude of mangers and HRs towards treating LGBTQ identifying candidates? Is company really inclusive or it’s just a lip service? Considering an offer with the company but being an out and proud Queer woman, super anxious and concerned.
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I get it - but diversity cannot start at senior leadership specially at PMD promote level . Folks need to be hired and need to come up the ranks on their own merit as well. I think the key is to expand the diversity lens at the campus and experienced hire level.
There’s actually a fair number of Latinos in SAP specifically. So that’s something
As a consultant, I’ve never had a client value process over outcomes. I can’t just tell them “here’s a great plan of action that will get you the outcome” and expect them to be happy while they see no results. So why are we so accepting internally of poor outcomes for D&I, and so quick to jump to the defense of existing process? Why is it automatically assumed that the bar would have to be lowered to have greater diverse representation unless you inherently believe minority groups are less capable? Have you never ever encountered a mediocre leader of the dominant group? No one is suggesting “force feeding minorities” - the critique is that whatever the current processes/ policies are, it’s clearly not working to generate the desired outcomes. We have to hold our firms to a higher bar, and OP is perfectly right in pointing out their failure to deliver on a commitment.
C3: I think you need to read the whole thread to understand the point of posting the research. It was posted specifically in response to a point K1 made around the correlation between diversity and financial results. If you read the thread, you would also find that I actually agree with you, that fairness is the real issue here, not financial outcomes. I’m however not sad that this research is still ‘active’ (whatever that means exactly), as I welcome research in any field that makes collectively us smarter.
Chief
Are you saying these folks were unfairly favored? Or that we should force feed minorities to leadership even if they’re not the most qualified?
I think this is a bit heated. In reality I assume no one here is explicitly biased. That being said, promotion processes are the culmination of very involved mentorship (eg being put on the right accounts to make an impact, being put in a position where you can demonstrate people management abilities or technical expertise, being put up for special opportunities like rotations or pitches, etc.). This mentorship is part push and part pull. The pull part has to be induced at the senior level. Because the overwhelming majority of partners are white males, junior white male staff are the ones who tend to get mentored. This is due to the fact that mentorship is stronger and more effective when it evolves organically (there is peer reviewed MGT theory research to support this). Left to our own devices, we will form connections with people who remind us of ourselves (this is supported by evolutionary biology and anthropology peer reviewed research). For a long time, there has been a conversation about explicit bias. The conversation is now shifting to implicit bias or unconscious bias. Questions here seem to imply there is no bias at play if there were no other diverse candidates who were as or more qualified. But bias is a complex topic and we need to accept as a society that it’s inherent. Once we accept our own fallibility, we can work to address the gaps our biases cause (because presumably we’re past the age where bias is conscious). If we need to build a business case for D&I to demonstrate its importance, we can again refer to peer reviewed research that has established a positive correlation between diversity and bottom line performance.
Rising Star
Stop diminishing and limiting Diversity and Inclusion. D&I is more than race and gender...veterans, LGBTQ, folks of different national origin and religions, disabilities etc..enough of the rhetoric of making D&I only about race and gender, other aspects in a person matter too
You’re right that diversity is intersectional. However, that’s not a reason to exclude race from the conversation or gloss over it. As long as race and gender continue to be the biggest indicators of privilege, and will continue to be called out.
How many of the 15 are Indian tho?
Legit curious at the answer? Is it many or none? Don’t work at D so really no clue...
🤦🏻♂️ None of you has approached this problem in the same disciplined, academic way you would approach a client problem. The D&I agenda has expanded from recruitment to include retention and development. That’s the piece you are missing in this dialogue. It’s about tapping diverse talent on the shoulder at the early manager level and then providing them the tools they need to succeed and build their business case.
Honestly I would say that surprises me right up until I read all the other comments. I did not realize that so many people at the firms thought D&I was all form over substance despite peer reviewed research that evidences the contrary. I will also be leaving KPMG within this coming FY because, in addition to being burned out, I don’t feel valued and I don’t feel like I’m getting what I need to grow my career.
So if there were xx people in line for MD with equal distribution of all races, AA or Asians should have been promoted irrespective of their professional experience, revenue numbers etc. just to maintain D&I?
Any undeserving ones?
Fix the culture that is hard for people that want to know their families. Make it a place family women and family men want to be, more women and men (of the flexible type that you want to work for) will apply, accept the job, and not churn when they reach manager and see the writing on the wall of what moving up to senior leadership means
As a URM myself, I have no problem with non minority people getting promoted. Minorities shouldn’t get promoted for the sake of promotion or to fill a quota. Reward us based on merit not our background.
Mhmm okay
OP - do you have any evidence that someone else was more qualified than these 15? If so, please let us know who and why.
There is no implication in the post that someone did not deserve it. Having said that (and if I know anything about Deloitte and the previous OP leader), I am sure there are a few..
Huh actually had no idea so many people disagree with D&I. I thought the consensus that the system is flawed was pretty much agreed and established; the hard part is fixing it. But here it seems like most people want to protect the current system.
A lot of people don't want to create a new system where someone would get promoted based on the color of their skin rather than an honest assessment of their skills against their peers. Everyone should be assessed against the same metrics and skin color/sex should not be a deciding factor for promotions. Only then can we have best/most qualified people occupying the positions that they deserve
Could it be that the other candidates did not measure up professionally? "Diversity" shouldn't mean that you should promote based on the color of someone's skin or sex or sexual preference etc.
K1- I’ve worked at both KPMG and PwC, and I can tell you without hesitation that KPMG is far more diverse then PwC. We’re working on it, but I’d expect the Ks to be less offended by their firm’s commitment to diversity than others.
So what is your point exactly
We need more transparency. What were their metrics? How did they present their value statement? Maybe we should have 1k staff determine who gets promoted.
Then it becomes a popularity contest not a merit based promotion system. All the directors / senior managers are aware of the metrics and selection process.
Popular =! Qualified
Pro
Only 12% of the US population is African American - I’m not sure how you’re hoping to beat the general makeup of the US population, statistically that doesn’t make sense.
Yes, you need more females, 30-40% of business school students are female, so consulting in general should try to match that.
And 50 percent of US population is female. If you are using a population percent argument, you should use it consistently. That’s all.
@OP were there more diverse leaders that you knew of who were up for the role that were not promoted? If you're only given n leaders in the first place to select from, I'm not sure where you are the issue? You're not going to wave a magic wand and *poof* you have a diverse talent pool. These things take time. People need to be hired in or promoted from the ground up.
Also, keep in mind you're talking about just one silo of D's work, expand your horizons.
This is for the SAP practice. We need to take into account the composition of that practice in looking at these numbers. It happens to be very heavily male. I work on a project with SAP. There are very few females.
Am I saying this isn’t an issue? Am I saying we shouldn’t support growth, development, etc. of females, URMs, etc. in that practice & make sure they are recruited, feel welcome, valued, empowered, and that they can grow to be PPMDs? Absolutely not. We have work to do! But do you need to look at the numbers above in context? Absolutely.
P.S. you will also notice OP cited only “male” and “AA” but did not comment on the diversity makeup of most of the males - doing so may be missing pieces of the puzzle as well