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FWIW, when I graduated law school unemployed in 2011, I turned down offers around $65K and decided to start my own practice instead. I had no experience, and I was hiring lawyers to supervise my work for me.
That was 9 years ago, and I wouldn't have even considered $45K. I'm on the coast, but it still sounds crazy low to me.
That’s not particularly odd in my area. In fact, if you can get your foot in the door at a firm that pays brand new licensees $60K or more, you are the exception. (This area is oversaturated with law schools, attorneys, and solos/small firms where even the owners aren’t making $100K.)
Law school debt notwithstanding, MOST new attorneys here find themselves having to choose between low-paying attorney jobs and document review. And I can tell you, there are folks who have been doing document review for years and would kill for even a low-paying attorney job right about now!
EDIT:
I just checked Robert Half. There are parts of my State where the range actually starts below $40K. The typical starting point appears to be between $45K and $55K.
How does any firm get away with paying an associate attorney $45K??? How???? I have NEVER made that little money in my life even when I wasn’t an attorney! Heck this is substantially less than one semester of elementary school, high school or even annual college tuition! I don’t even know any under grads who would take this salary.
So why would anyone think they can get away with paying a qualified lawyer this little? Am both shocked and angered! Is this what young lawyers have to look forward to???
WHAT?? Paralegals and assistants can make more than that. What’s the point of incurring all that law school debt to make $45k when you could be an assistant with a one year training course.
Absolutely asinine. My friend manages a clothing store in the mall for more than $45k, which is a lot less stress and responsibility and easier hours.
Chief
I'd rather have a much more chill job for that salary.
I turned down an offer for $95k base... $45k in any US market seems absurd. Who would accept that offer?
Yes! I wouldn’t take anything less than six figure either! NOPE!
Well I started at my firm making 37k with 6 Mos experience. We slowly started hiring new attorneys at a higher rate but it took a long time. Part of that was driven by location, Midwest, the size of our firm, 10 attorneys, and the fact that we specialize in a unique area of law on a contingency fee basis. I did quickly start receiving a bonus of 15% on everything I brought in but it took a lot of time for me to have my own files to generate enough income to pay my bills. I worked a second job in the interim.
Y’all nuts! Corporate as in not law firm but plenty of licensed attorneys too and other generalists or analysts? Easily 65k (base not including 401k, insurance, profit bonus, benefits ($25k+), promotion track) right out of college are you joking. Sure must be A team but if you made it law school and bar? Pretty sure you got this. This sucks lol why people ruining it for yourselves and others accepting low pay.
Apparently someone was so triggered by my post they messaged me tell me I was ignorant and elitist! Wow 😳 loooool
OP you asked if you were out of line. That was the basis of your post. You then posted a screenshot threatening to block and report someone because they didn't agree with you. Stop trying to gaslight and act like you are merely just looking out of the well being of lawyers when you were looking for people to agree with you.
And I write paragraphs because sometimes things need explanations. That's what we do as lawyers and if you have a problem with using lots of words, this isn't your profession.
Rising Star
Location? I agree, that's insane. Tell them to look at the Robert Half salary guide. That's insulting. You get what you pay for...
I'm at a small firm in DC, so I earn less than a lot of folks I know. But my starting salary seven years ago was in line with what the Robert Half guide at the time, so I took it without negotiating for more. But if my firm told me they would be offering $45k to a starting first year, I'd complain HARD. What quality attorney are we going to attract for that shit salary. It's also insulting and would make us a joke.
Way to bury the lede
In the Midwest (especially in more rural areas), this isn’t completely out of line for a brand new attorney for a small firm. The expectation would be that as the firm is able to up their capacity once the initial training is over that the firm would be able to raise the salary.
Typically, a small firm with that type of pay is not going to require the same amount of hours as a large firm would. The firm wants their attorneys to have time to get out in the community and become known and build relationships with those in the area. That is how they draw in new clients.
Rising Star
A salary that low with promises of training is hooey and exploitative.
HARD NOPE. 👎
Maybe out of line? What difference does it make to you OP? Let the market do it's thing. There are plenty of people, especially in this market, who would be happy to take that money and experience. No one's being forced here. And as you said, lawyers have advanced degrees so an applicant can do the analysis about whether this is an appropriate opportunity for their personal circumstances.
Chief
Market matters a lot. Where is this opening?
In terms of whether they can “get away” with this salary I’m sure they will get some applications. There are far too many lawyers for the available jobs. So the question isn’t whether someone will sign up. The real question is how good that person is. The answer is that unless something odd is going on here - such as the firm is paying for housing - the person they get will be both desperate and the owner of a lousy resume.
The fact that some of us didn’t go to a Tier 1 law school doesn’t mean we have lousy resumes. There are also a lot of Small Law attorneys out there who make peanuts compared to what Big Law makes. That doesn’t mean they are necessarily inferior to Big Law.
I don't think you're out of line but the market will correct the problem with or without you. They'll either get no interest in this very "special" opportunity or they'll get really weak candidates. You get what you pay for in most cases.
😳 Wow! Unbelievable!
Yes
I started in 2017 at $45k in the middle of nowhere Kansas at a very small law firm. The next year got a new position in a bigger city at $50k. It was difficult because before law school I made $65k. Now making $75k at least in a corporate setting.
Am so happy for you A4! Onwards and upwards! I hope we continue to do better for young lawyers!
I mean... there are some lower-tier/unaccredited law schools out there where grads end up taking paralegal or non-JD required jobs... I bet some people would take a low paying lawyer job over a slightly higher paying non-JD required job w/ the hope of promotions/growth. But yeah you’re not going to get T14 law grads applying for your firm w/ that base.
I hear you but the ones I’m talking about aren’t the young LLM kids. I know quite a few mature foreign-educated law grads who worked as lawyers in their home country (India, Pakistan, Syria) for 10-15 years and came to North America as immigrants or refugees. The ones I know personally drove taxis and worked at gas stations until they could get licensed and find an attorney role.