Related Posts
What is the salary for a ‘H4’ band?
More Posts
Conversation Starter
Bowl Leader
What’s the word on Foley Hoag LLP?
Additional Posts in Advertising
Rising Star
Favorite dialogue-driven humor spots?
Thoughts on BGB Group (NY)?
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
@CD 1, women who do try to demand more get turned down more likely than men because it seems unsavory if a woman asks for more. Oddly enough when men do it, they look smarter for it. How about women ask more and management makes a point to make sure there's an equal amount of "yes" to both genders? Once that happens, women will learn that asking doesn't have a consequence and aim for higher.
@CD1 I don't think AD1's suggestion is moronic. It's a bit optimistic, sure. But it would create an interesting dialogue, nonetheless. I don't think shareholders care who gets paid what as long as it doesn't affect their bottom line. This is an issue for management, not them. What I do think is interesting, though, CD1, is your sort of brash statement above about you either taking pay cuts or women demanding more money. It shows, plainly, that you've never experienced the struggle of having to argue for 78% of your worth. We do try to make salary demands on your level. And then someone says, "Oh, well we really can't do that. This is the absolute best we can do." And you trust them at their word and take the salary. And then they hire a guy and pay him well above you two months later. That is, really, how it works. And oh! When you're actually at the job, trying to produce some damn fine work, you have to fight twice as hard to get the credit for it. Men swoop down like seagulls picking up bits of your creative ideas and parading them as their own. You get talked over. Constantly. They don't look you in the eyes when they speak to you. Your boss takes your male coworkers out for drinks. They bond. And then they get promoted. They get salary increases. You say you are underpaid. They make promises you know they'll never keep, and then you get another offer for 78% of your worth from another company.
@DesignDirector1 yeah and that's also bullshit. Men deserve just as much paternity leave as women get. Their having to go back to work after two weeks creates a false dichotomy in the relationship and sets the woman up for career failure and the man up for failure in his relationships with his children.
@Publicis. Would love to know who gets 9 months of maternity leave.
OP, R/GA is the only company that paid me fairly. They are a damn fine agency.
Starcom seems to. A couple years ago me and my wife were same level same pay.
True story: at my previous job I helped a colleague (same title, about the same time working at our employer) with their condo application. Discovered he made 33% more than me. Same responsibilities. I approached our boss (small company of 6) and he shrugged and said the coworker was there longer. 😡
Comments from Havas folks on this and some other things make me feel good about not accepting any offers from them
@CD1 I love how threatened you feel by women. Gives me hopes for the future.
TL;DR @CD1? When you hire a woman some day, pay her what you pay the guys around her. That's how you split the cogs in this system.
Had this conversation just yesterday. Assume HR is always offering you less than you're worth, reject every first offer, and ask for more. It'll add up.
I wouldn't answer if asked so would never consider asking other people... Feels so weird and just wrong
I'm sorry I just don't think it's tied to gender and it's not linear to your performance. Some people may be worse at their job, but better at negotiating and more aware of how the salary game works.. who's fault is that? That's life and the corporate world. Maybe STATISTICALLY women are less apt to ask for more. I just don't believe a manager looks at two equal candidates and says I'm paying you less because you have a vagina. It's a game of statistics. Statistics on paper can paint a different picture when you recite that women on average are paid 78% to men.
@CD 1, I see you can't do math or understand policies that benefit society and cost nothing to a company. You're an example of the men who think they really deserve that extra $20K, but have got nothing to show.
Totally for it in theory. Tell me how they do that. Do I have to take a pay cut? Do I not get to negotiate my salary? Seriously, not trying to start an argument, but I don't have an answer for the problem other than you have to demand more.
How are you aware of the pay discrepancy? Really asking. I know it exists! And I'm a woman. But I'm not sure how you actually prove it? Are you asking people at your title at your agency about their salaries? And trusting they're honest?
@MagicMike Phew! Problem solved, we're even then. Smh...cutest thing ever
I make sure women and men on my team make the same within a margin of +/- 3% as there are other factors that should be involved; performance etc.
I highly recommend the book "Women Don't Ask" by Linda Babcock. It talks a lot about perceptions of men and women in negotiations and gives helpful examples of how we can negotiate without coming off as bitchy/whining/complaining
@CD 1, the industry is mostly women, but the C-suite is still mostly men. That's even worse.