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Bowl Leader
Don’t know if it’s 100% common, but I’ve always thought a lot of us go through sort of a “flip around” moment - you’ve always been the youngest person in the room, look around, and suddenly you aren’t. For me, started happening mid-90s, particularly as clients started hiring younger in their marketing departments since less experienced command lower salaries.
So I’m a boomer — and, yeah, ok with that - been a long while dealing with.
Bowl Leader
Long-story short: I’m not sure the generational characterizations are entirely true or even much useful. in fact, I’d argue the rules of engagement are pretty much the same: it’s all about the value you offer and they ain’t paying you to occupy space; you work with the right A-listers, you learn you don’t need to be a dick to get to the mountaintop; doesn’t matter if it’s the client’s place or you’re a freelancer in an agency, it’s always someone else’s house; submission games or trying to prove your cultural creds are generally useless — the work will speak for itself.
you’re looking into a mirror with a 15 year delay, so be understanding and hope when you make it to their level, the next generation wont complain about you.
I’ve found they’re as a group they’re pretty condescending as a whole… think they know it all
YES. So how can we work with them better? How can we make our ideas heard, and have our thoughts count just as much...even if we are older?
Are you truly treating them like an equal or do you expect them to never disagree or correct you because you’ve been doing this longer?
Because I will say that this is a tricky industry to grow old in. I supervise and am supervised by people who are Gen X, and sometimes they know better than me. But just as often, they’re stuck in old ways or have learned bad habits and seem horrified that I’d have the temerity to stick to my guns, or talk to them as if we’re both adults and I might have something to offer.
I don’t have patience for anyone who expects respect but doesn’t really show it.
Reading between the lines, it sounds like you’re annoyed that younger generations aren’t terrified of you. 30/40 y.o’s are not juniors. They’ve been doing this long enough that they may actually know better than you, especially in a field as subjective and ever-changing as ours.
Haha it’s crazy to me that “if you’re not being heard, it’s probably because you’re a freelance writer working into full time CDs and not about some big generational rift” is an “unhinged” opinion. And lo and behold, a lot of people in this thread agree with me.
I’m in my early 50s, and could literally be my copy partner’s dad, but we’ve never had an issue.
There’s times where my experience is helpful in situations, and there’s times where their youth/new ideas are helpful.
I think the key is treating each other as equals.
I generally freelance so I’ve had bosses within a wide range of age. From my end I’m unconcerned, and I’ve been pretty fortunate as far as bosses/managers. However as a whole I’ve found that sometimes certain teams or hiring groups comprising Millys used to be weird, and were dismissive of or tried to bully random Gen Xers. It might be because they outnumber us and can’t resist the pack mentality? This was particularly bad from about 2014-ish to 2020. I think it has mellowed because they now realize they are also no spring chickens.
I’m currently working on a project for a (male!) founder in his 20s, and he has been a joy. He is incredibly respectful and professional, and regularly implements my feedback.
Freelance is the way. I feel after 40. They literally don’t bother you.
I really think what you are noticing is a slightly strained FT/freelancer or CD/CW dynamic, not anything unique to the ages or birth years of anyone involved.
And yes many millennials (self included) are approaching their mid-forties and don’t really see people 10-15 years older than us as a different age at this point.
Exactly. Unless someone’s been in the biz for <5 years, I see them as a peer, with taste and habits that can vary wildly based on where they’ve worked and how they’ve been trained.
We will have to work for people who are younger/less experienced than us sometimes. I want to do it better. It used to be that being nice was the way to indicate, "I'm not a threat and am here to do the best work I can." Could be too that since I am a freelancer, they think of me as a substitute teacher/not entitled to respect. I am talking about people in their 30's and early 40s. I think that's Millennial? 🤔
I would also like to ask, if anyone knows of any creative departments with people primarily over 45? Tall order I know. But I would just love to work with people my own age or older. Makes me miss the days of working for ECDs who walked the halls like royalty bc they were smart and talented.
I’m 42. I’m a dad, a homeowner, and I’ve already started to feel the effects of being aged out. I’m also a millennial.
In other words I don’t think there’s some magical difference between talking to millennials and Gen X. Maybe 20 years ago when we were entering the workforce there was but at this point a lot of us are old grizzled veterans who are just trying to survive, just like you.
It’s not a millenial thing, a lot of these ad kids went to private school and expensive portfolio schools daddy’s got connections at the agency they are just little shits.
I would suggest not getting wrapped up in broad strokes about generations and maybe keep it focused on individuals.
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Sometimes there are universal truths (something we creatives know all about). So I was hoping to get advice from others who have successfully navigated this relationship.
OK. I’ll bite. Are you actually friendly or condescending? Are you being direct or a dick? And is this to a few different people or just one person?
Millennials are in their professional peak (since we are generalizing) so yes, all of us in gen X are likely co-existing with younger colleagues who are in managerial positions to us. So maybe treat them individually, professionally, and respectfully. And I’m sure you’ll get it in return. Just like any generation, there’s all kinds.
As if Gen X didn’t have some of the worst set of racist, misogynistic, CDs. Come on man.
Coincidentally, someone who acts too familiar or ‘like a friend’ too quickly at work is a red flag so maybe just try being your self.
I observed some of these things, too. I don’t really have any great solves, though. I recall consistently being blown off/dismissed by a junior AE when I was a freelance supervisor. I do think that she felt like she didn’t need to heed my guidance since I wasn’t an FTE.
A more recent occurrence particularly bothered me. I spent my own money to buy books for my team—one of Robert Solomon’s titles on account management that I found extremely helpful and I wish I’d read it early in my career. One of the management supervisors who I gifted it to didn’t even bother to read it. He gave it to an AE on the team the same day! I found out from her when I stopped by her desk to give her a copy. My takeaway was that he thinks he’s above learning and/or receiving advice from those with more experience. And no, I don’t think he already had a copy given the conversation we had when I handed it to him.