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I am a Design Engineer, Mtech + 4 yrs.
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Rising Star
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I believe Orrick gives credit for time off - 80 billable hours so you can enjoy your vacay. I agree it’s impossible with 1900-2000 targets unless you’re able to get consistent work without major ups and downs.
Thanks for letting me know. Orrick you hiring? 😂
Went in-house after 5 years. I technically have the same number of days off, but it’s feels like 5x more. Sure, emails pile up while I’m out and there’s a few new questions that trickle in, but it’s not the same pressure at all. When I’m out, I don’t have to worry about how I’m going to make up those hours or plan out weekends to work to cover them. I really believe law firms could significantly increase retention if they gave billable credit for time off.
Chief
No, you’re not missing anything. This is a big part of why firm life is absolutely soul crushing. If you have a 2000 hour annual billables requirement and you also want to take 2 weeks of vacation (what, you want more than that? what are you, some kind of European?), you have to bill as if your actual target is 2100 or whatever. And god forbid you fall behind.
I have family in Europe. They work 20 hours a week, live comfortably, and take 5 weeks of vaca a year. They can’t fathom how much American lawyers work, and they think we’re crazy.
I do too.
You are not missing anything. It is absurd. Yet another reason why all the hand-wringing by law firms about how unsolvable the problem of lawyer burnout is is such a joke. If they cared to solve it, they could.
Not sure I understand. You are taking time off (in theory) , and you are still getting paid, hence PTO. Not sure what billables has to do with it. You could say billable targets are too high considering the number of weeks you actually work, but I don't see why PTO would count towards billables.
The autonomy argument fails when most of us are so busy that we could never imagine taking 2 weeks, billable credit or not, without having to constantly check email or put out fires remotely. That’s very much the opposite of autonomy. And that’s what happens when people drink the koolaid and think that you should just “factor in” vacation to their billable quota. You assume that the deadlines will pause for the two weeks you want to take. But that’s not how it works, hence, the best way to make vaca meaningful is give billable credit for it + have enough associate staffing that people on vaca can unplug. This is not a novel concept, and it happens everywhere else in the world except the US.
Pro
It does feel insane, especially right when you get back. But if a firm gives associates that billable hour credit for paid vacation, you have to consider that it's also a huge cost. We are talking millions of dollars for a firm with just 100 associates. Those millions gotta come from somewhere. That somewhere is from the equity partners who worked the same deal for over a decade as associates to make partner and who are probably paying you substantially more than they got paid for the same work. Keep in mind one of the perceived benefits of equity is you get to feed off of or even cannibalize the profession's young. Some equity partners would even say that they are the ones who should be getting billing credit for vacation while you earn your existence. I don't see that bunch rushing to the front of that line and in their shoes I don't see myself doing so either. Not say it's healthy or that it is one of the profession's virtues, but it is what it is.
Pro
No, I am not. Boomers are in their 60s and 70s. There are partners in their 40s and and 50s too.
It's why I awkward laugh whenever people ask what kind of vacation time I get... Sure I can go away for a week, but there better be good wifi bc I have to hit my monthly target no matter what.
This is why I have always avoided working in big law or at mid size firms with large billable hour requirements. I’ve always said - and I will die on this hill - there is a difference between making more and working more. Big law salary for big law hours; or big salaries in a firm where you have to make up PTO isn’t always better. When you look at total comp through a lens of how much you actually have to work, I often find lower total comp at a small boutique firm to be the better deal. A big part of why I work where I do is because I’m not expected to make up hours for sick leave or PTO
This is no small part of the reason I went in house.
So enticing!
Best way to deal with this is to accumulate buffer hours prior to going on vacation. Know how much you need to bill each day to hit your billable goal for the year. Then once you know when your vacation will be, over the course of a few months build up the necessary hours so you can go on vacation and not be behind when you come back. It seems like a lot, and it is. But it’s part and parcel of being paid what are honestly very generous salaries. There are people working 2 -3 jobs who never take vacation and make 1/4 of what our starting salaries are.
AA4 and A12, yaaaa that is beyond absurd. The billable hours is brutal, especially if you’re not able to consistently hit a code for 7+hours every day.
Yep. It’s totally stupid. So glad I left so I can actually take time off.
I have two offers one in house and one from law firm. This right here is helping me make my choice
Some firms have done away with PTO for this reason. Their philosophy is that so long as you are hitting your billables, you can take the time off that you need. Anything else really makes no sense. For instance, why should an attorney have to dock their PTO bank to take off a Friday, when they bill 8 hours two days later on Sunday?
Rising Star
And @C2—I always took advantage of it with a 1950 min. Billable requirement. I used to pretty much take December off a few years in a row, but still paying attention to my own cases, however. When you’re in charge of a case, that’s a different story, obviously. But I wouldn’t do work for others though when I didn’t need the hours. I don’t do any of that anymore, though.
Hitting 2000 is fine with 4 weeks off, as long as you knock out a few hours in the morning or the evening, or if you had a 240+ hour month to balance it.
A2 has a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome
Yes, it is absurd and one of the many reasons I chose to go in-house. Was always stressed about taking a vacation because of billable hr impact, and it was actively discouraged by the firm.
Depends on your requirement. It was insane when I was doing insurance defense at 2220/year. Not a problem at current firm that is 1700/year.
I know this is an old post, but what would you recommend for the former? Just take vacation and be under the requirement? It’s unfortunately impossible to make it up because the requirement is already so high :/
I just assume 50 weeks a year when I set my billables goal. Yes, it sucks, it's hard to make hours and have a balanced lifestyle.
“You want vacation time, go teach 3rd grade public school….” -Jim Young
Then you end up working the buffer hours then still not taking vacation
It is rare in the medical field for doctors to receive production credit for PTO but the issue is generally mitigated with a pro sal compensation structure
If law firms were willing to pay lawyers on pro sal (production minus base salary) this issue would be mitigated but only if lawyers are not subject to production deficits, ie paid production monthly with monthly reset of deficit.. but legal profession doesn’t care about motivating associates just working them to death so….
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