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I love this attitude. I was obsessed with being a star associate for a few years, and all I got was more work and less appreciation because I was just “expected” to do things over weekends, late nights etc. since I always did. I’ve been trying to dial it back a bit this year and make more time for me, my health and my family.
Coach
Thanks, SA1. Makes sense and I agree; I try to tailor my approach to the individual. That military officer experience must be a great help to your own work and working with your team.
Bowl Leader
Couldn’t agree more, OP. Biglaw by its very nature is an amalgamation of neurotic people who have gotten where they are in life by being try-hards. Folks who were A-only students and often, gunners. I’ve never been that kind of person, but by virtue of having gone to a top law school, having a good personality and what I expect is some measure of sense, work ethic and luck - I’m at a top firm. I stressed the first few years about being the absolute best associate I could be, but I soon realized that attitude had all-consuming (read: negative) effects on my life and mental health. I have actively tried this year to draw reasonable boundaries to protect my personal time (i.e., saying I’ll get someone work product at reasonable X future time if they request it without a deadline, rather than scrambling to do it ASAP), and being honest with my staffer when I get asked to take on more work but am already spread thin. I am here to do my job satisfactorily, and my priority is to protect my well-being in doing so. Since I want eventually to be the primary caregiver to my unborn children, I don’t aspire to partner - and I think that makes the calculus much easier. And if I’m being honest, I think many of those close in age to me (I was born 1991) feel the same way about biglaw. It’s not a sustainable business model or lifestyle, at least at a top firm. I’m here for a good time, not a long time. Gonna learn, save dat money, get good training, do decent work and GTFO when the time is right. At the end of the day, you’re the only one looking out for yourself. Never forget that you’re very simply a profit center for the firm. You don’t owe them more than your good faith efforts. You’re not paid to agonize to be an absolute rockstar, summa cum laude associate.
A3--that's the trick. Never get used to your salary. Otherwise those golden handcuffs will start to winch closed, purchase by purchase
I mean, I've definitely enjoyed my income from time to time, but big picture money management is key
Coach
I’m working to become more like this. I set too high expectations for myself and now other people expect that level of performance all the time. I just want to be an okay associate, not a star associate.
Yep! Just learn to start setting boundaries. It’s okay to give a soft “no” and not be available all the time.
What does a B associate look like? Meeting minimum hours? Occasionally asking for work? I’m curious as I also would rather be this kind of associate
You can also easily be an A associate without being a weird gunner. Like who shows up early or stays late to impress partners or knocks on their door to make small talk? That’s silly and the partners are too busy and would get annoyed at the waste of time at some point. You can be an A associate by delivering consistently good work, being pretty responsive, showing up to firm events, and being pleasant to work with.
The B associates to me are the ones who submit decent work product but it always needs some work and is a bit sloppy (missed points/typos/using cases that shouldn’t be cited because they have a good sentence but a bad holding overall, etc.), they miss internal deadlines, make the same mistake multiple times without improving, and just don’t take ownership of cases. You can do all that and so long as you hit 1800 hours, most firms will let you stay 3-4 years.
The C associates are the ones who don’t have good work product, say no to work when others in the group are way busier, and aren’t responsive/risk blowing external deadlines. Those associates hopefully only last a year, but for juniors they usually get a longer rope and it’s a couple years.
Totally agree. My loans are paid off, so I’m sticking around to learn and explore exits while having my firm’s name on my resume. In the meantime, the money’s great and I’m still picking up helpful skills from partners and the A+ associates.
Mentor
Y’all really putting partners on a pedestal. So many mediocre lawyers (B associates) make partner. Look at all the mediocre partners that exist!
This is such a good point.
I’m the same way but I don’t know where I’m going after..do you, OP?
Not sure when or where, but definitely in-house.
Coach
I became a B associate once I gained enough good relations that I didn’t need to bust ass every single day. Still was on my stuff but relaxed a bit. Settled into the B mentality of not stressing as soon as I decided I would apply to another job since this wasn’t sustainable for me and the life I wanted. Truly a freeing feeling.
Subject Expert
It’s all relative. I think of myself this way because I see others who are gunning way harder but I suspect others who are more laidback think I’m a gunner.
And with my juniors, I see everything from A+ to F associates and have varying degrees of love/hate for them, lol. Just keep in mind if you’re slacking someone (probably whoever’s supervising you) has to pick up your slack, lol. So try and be a good human being, leaving aside being an A+ associate ;_;
You might be surprised how many people will help you with exit opportunities if you’ve done good work for them and ask, even to another firm.
Mentor
I personally don’t think your definition makes you a “B” associate. A lot of the “A+” associates are going to burnout so much quicker and end up jumping ship, and regardless of what anyone says, a lot of money goes into all that training and most firms do want to keep their best associates around. I think setting boundaries and letting the small stuff fall to the wayside is important for your overall development and growth and happiness - meaning you are more likely to stay awhile and do a good job. I don’t know... I think that’s still at least A material, if not A+!
Mentor
P1 - guess I’m just that “B” associate walking around with blinders thinking I’m doing ok? 🤔 In any case, I’m good with it because I’m pretty happy with my work and that’s a lot more than what most A+ associates can say.
I love that I got a notification that an Equity Partner liked my post. Hire me and split your profits? 🙃
People can do this but the partners know, at all times, who the stars are and who is committed, and reputations have ways of mattering in the longer run that would surprise many. I had a call with a client the other day I hadn’t talked to in 15 years who still remembered me as the star associate. Not like that happens every day, and if you plan to get out of the law altogether, it doesn’t really matter, of course. If you aren’t sure, though, or plan to stick around in the law (even if in-house and possibly coming back to biglaw, as happens all the time at my firm), use some caution here.
Subject Expert
Haha I love the comment about the shit work. I think folks have different definitions of shit work though. I fucking hate getting diligence nonsense, my view is I run deals and I usually make my partners get the “B associates” to handle most of my diligence for me so I can focus on the main deal running. But I’ve also heard some associates who love the diligence work because it’s comparatively easy and low pressure billables.
I think the B associate approach is probably best for most, particularly given the extremely low equity partner promotion rate in biglaw. (And honestly, that approach gets a decent number to partner anyway because they don’t burn out and they learn to play the game). But it’s not costless, and I worked with enough B to F associates whose slacking had a direct negative impact on their peers and other team members. Somebody has to pick up the slack, and the people picking up the slack are not always “gunners” who will do anything to make partner and are happy to do so. Sometimes they’re very nice folks with a strong sense of responsibility, or are standing directly in the clients’ or partners’ lines of fire. And many of those folks end up getting destroyed while their peers take a relatively free ride on the gravy train for a few years. That can be pretty crummy on a person-to-person basis.
Oh I love this
Agreed... but then what are your long term goals? What will you do after big law?
Perhaps it’s just a subjective difference on what we think is an A associate vs a B associate. I really think everything you are describing is an A associate minus the mental pressure/self-imposed neurosis. Totally agree with you that this approach isn’t healthy and is fostered by law firm culture unfortunately.
But to me, B associates often are not liked by the other associates who feel they aren’t pulling their weight. A1’s response above is so true. I’m a senior associate now and when my friends m who are in house are looking to hire, I get asked all the time how the person was as an associate. Someone who sets aggressive boundaries and doesn’t pull their weight is not getting a good recommendation.
The teams I work with are fabulous and so we don’t get a bunch of people like that, but there are always a few.
You know “B associates” eventually get pushed out?
B associates eventually get pushed out once they become a senior associate, but B associates don’t have any intention of staying in Biglaw that long anyways. Based on my definition of a B associate in this thread, they definitely wouldn’t get pushed out before year 6 (bc they still do good work, have a good attitude, and are billing a decent amount of hours). Again, I’m not encouraging people to be C-F associates and coast until they get fired.