Are wealth managers actually able to beat the market? I recently met with a private client advisor and she claimed that her team was able to beat the market by few percentage points. I am skeptical but I am an outsider. I know this is possible once in a while but consistently beating the market is quite impossible unless your are Warren Buffet or someone like him. Would love to hear your thoughts?

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the efficient markets hypothesis implies that you cannot be the market consistently on a risk-adjusted basis. many people who beat the market do so by taking on more risk.

the empirical evidence is that financial advisors can add value by talking you out of selling when the market is down. the instinct of many individual investors is to get scared and sell AFTER the market has fallen. after the market recovers, they regain confidence and buy.

likesmarthelpful

It depends on a dozen factors.
- What market are they beating? (S&P, NASDAQ, Nikkei, or FTSE?)
- Can they beat it YoY and for how long?
- Whats their investment strategy? If its Fund on Funds, they are just charging you a middleman fee.

Many investors beat the S&P500 to be fair, and there are many ways to do so via both public and private investments. So while I wont discount them, i would want to see their investment strategy and track record

likehelpful

A better way to put it is whether they can beat their benchmark. Their benchmark could be the market or it could be something else but it's important to compare their strategy correctly to the right benchmark.

likesmarthelpful

Sham. Maybe every now and then but a WMs value prop is not to beat the market. It’s allocation over time based on personal goals/events along with tax/estate planning. Goal is to give peace of mind and build relationship over time to give access to more preferred banking products (favorable lending, favorable mortgages, fancy tax stuff, etc). If they’re pitching beating the market then they don’t have the above.

likehelpful

The short answer for someone managing someone else’s money. No.
A PCA, so they are at JPM? They are most likely using firm models and they absolutely can’t say they will always beat the markets.

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If they’re guaranteeing that it’s bs. And if they do, will their fee eat up the difference?

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I think her compliance department would be surprised to hear this claim….

likesmart

If they’re guaranteeing that I’d run a mile. An advisors value is not solely in investment returns, but tax efficiencies and proper strategic planning. I’d be weary of any wealth manager who solely focuses on alpha.

likehelpful

Financial wellness among workers dropped to 42 percent in June, according to a recent Bank of America Workplace Benefits Report, the lowest rate since the report began in 2010. Based on a nationwide survey, the report also found that two-thirds of workers in June believed the cost of living was outpacing growth in their salary or wages, compared with 58 percent in February 2022.

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Massively depends on what they are using to “beat the market”. If one of investing funds in a combination of structured products and private market funds, then outsized returns relative to SPX would not be unreasonable- you are however taking on very different risks

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Ask for an audited, GIPS complient track record that clearly proves this claim. Highly likely they do not have one.

Most large cap mutual funds have hundreds of millions / several billion under management, lots of resources, and employ very smart people who spend 8-10 hours a day looking for their investment edge. These folks, by and large, cannot "beat the market" when you look beyond a few quarters worth of performance data. There is no way that some wealth manager whereever is beating any benchmark on a consistent basis. If they were, they'd be retired. S/he is in the business of collecting assets to gather a fee and make it seem like you aren't getting hosed in the process.

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Maybe this past year but past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Beating indexed (market) is extremely hard, usually only the institutional wealth folks that have higher qualifications could maybe do it.. but not every year

This post makes no sense. With modern investment strategies, access to private markets, crypto, and alternative strategies, $1,000 portfolio can still achieve the same growth profile and yield as a $10M one.

Earning alpha is dictated by the size of the return but the asset allocation and risk tolerance.

Somewhat challenging to verify unless they file monthly risk v return data w SEC. If u see trade blotter of 3 largest accounts AUM easy to calculate risk stats. Needs to b minimum 3yrs. Of the portfolio funds and pvt equity funds that file w SEC odds are avg 3y return in < 5% and odds are very high avg bet is less than 1 to 1 return vs risk. Most funds do not add real value. Just ran 31trln AUM, all assets, all styles. 22trln are less than 1 to 1 bet, > 2x downside to upside, less than 55% win rate 3y avg stats. during historic run up in paper risk assets and lowest funding cost for any leverage

What methodologies you guys use to calculate Risk adjusted return?

In developed economies, index will always give better returns than wealth portfolios. However, in emerging economies, its quite the opposite.

“Beating the market” is a generic phrase usually uttered by a$$holes (no offense, anyone making claims they always “beat the market” is probably a d-bag). As someone else stated, a private wealth manager’s first goal is to develop a strategy and asset allocation based on your personal goals and risk tolerance. A study was done years ago and basically the jest of it was that 90% of your return is derived through asset allocation decisions. So in order for a wealth manager (or a CIO or any investment manager) to “beat the market”, a proper benchmark appropriate to a risk level, security type etc, must be chosen. For instance, if a wealth manager had a client that was a retired 70 year old couple with no debt, $10 million in liquid assets, wanted to live on $150k per year, and not outlive their savings while leaving their children $5 million+ was their goal, the WM would need to set an appropriate risk tolerance, investment horizon, etc that would leave to an asset allocation. In this case, they would probably be fairly aggressive which means they would probably have a pretty high equity allocation and/or other “return seeking” assets. But they would have to have an appropriate benchmark in order for them to make any sort of claim that the “beat the market” (and they should be phrasing it as they beat their benchmark) for any given period. If they make claims that they “always beat the market”, I would steer clear of them. Nobody, intellectually or legally, can make that claim.

A good financial advisor will never promise ANY results. But enough with that. A financial advisor’s job isn’t to beat the market. That’s a portfolio manager’s job. A financial advisor helps you navigate estate planning, diversification, goals based planning, etc etc. run away from an advisor who starts talking about market benchmarks…they are trying to impress you then probably beat you down with fees.

After fees, no. At best they will keep you from losing more.

Some years yes, some no

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