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We live in a capitalist society. The definition of what anything is worth is determined by what an able buyer (aka employer) is willing to pay, not by what we used to make. What any of us is worth right now is exactly what we’re being offered right now, not a penny more. We liked the system just fine when it paid us well, but now that there’s more supply than demand (no matter how many awards you have) we have to adjust. We’re commodities, not artists. If you can afford to turn down work, great for you. If you can’t, you take what you can get. Either way, capitalism is heartless and doesn’t care.
Mentor
Overall, you’re right. But this important line of yours seems flawed at first look: “What any of us is worth right now is exactly what we’re being offered right now, not a penny more.”
I’m sure you own a MacBook Pro. I’ll give you 20 bucks for it.
Subject Expert
I typically work off project rates with a clearly defined scope/timeline. Been doing just fine! I have been rejecting any recruiters/rates that are low. I keep a very well organized list of what I accept vs reject. I’m aggressively organized. It allows me to track & predict finances.
In the last 3 months:
accepted: 8 projects
rejected: +32 projects
active leads: 14 projects
billed/completed: $40k
active projects: $22k (haven’t yet billed for)
worked with 1 staffing agency for 1 project
all B2B contracts (1099)
I have no intention on lowering my rate. It’s fairly priced. Those rejections came after realizing those were not the type of clients I want to be working with. I think we forget that as freelancers.. we need to define who we work for and reject anything that doesn’t work for us.
Mentor
My typical range between 1400-1800/day. 15 years experience.
I’ve been declining low ball offers left and right. The discounts agencies are asking are just plain abusive and is advantageous to only one party of the agreement.
Just the other week a holding company agency offered a take-it-or-leave-it day rate of 550 for a senior creative role (10+ years required). That’s really beyond insulting.
If we all participate in this rate race to the bottom, we will never again be valued what we’re worth and our craft, experience and knowledge we have accumulated over the years will be equally praised to someone over on Fiverr. This shouldn’t be treated like it’s a commodity based business and we cannot allow it to be perceived as one.
I understand that people need to work and have financial obligations to fulfill. Obviously I do, too.
But guys, we need to stand together on this. I seriously urge you to hold firm. As hard as it may be. Please discount no more than 20%. In the grand scheme of things this is fair to you and to the employer.
If we all take a stand, the agencies will have no choice but to stop exploiting their rank and file. Because there wouldn’t be anyone doing the work. And I’d doubt agencies would confidently go into client meetings with work they sourced on TaskRabbit.
I sincerely hope you will join me on this. One for all, all for one.
I agree there is a bottom limit and we should try not to go below that. $550 a day seems really ridiculous. BUT I do sympathize with folks out there that have families to support. Not everyone can say no to $550 a day when that is unemployment for a week.
I’m lucky enough not to have to take a rate like that.
Pre pandemic we found it was getting harder to get the high end of our rates. While once we were getting 1800-2000 (prime time of our careers) now getting 1500 was the high end. 1200-1400 was more like it.
Now this could be due to the fact we are women (I had a male partner most of my career) but this is another topic. And/or we are both over 50 - so ageism (yet another topic) but side note: we recently got a gig because they wanted women so who knows 🤷🏻♀️
It is getting harder to stand your ground. Some agencies are def negotiating...had a few cases where they met us in the middle. So we always ask! And def not going below 20% discount.
💪
For reference: we both have 20 + years experience worked as GCDs at decent agencies. Won pitches and awards. We are women. Pre covid: $1500 a day or $175 an hour with time and a half over 40 hours.
Post: 125-150/hour with time and a half over 40 hours. At our level this rate is low. But we’d rather work (and have to work) than not.
@freelane2 1500/ each
I lost my job due to COVID and have a great book, lots of proper awards and only ever worked in good agencies. I also have a partner and we’ve been freelancing as a team.
I was told by recruiters that my day rate based on my experience and previous salary should be 1500-1800 per day.
But I’ve only been able to get $1200 a day as every agency is doing pandemic pricing. I lost one project because I asked for a compromise of $1300. They just ghosted me and when I followed up they said that rate was “not approved”. I think I know the team they used instead and they are not anywhere as accomplished as us. There is always someone who’ll take the job if you don’t.
So I guess that represents a 30% reduction. But like you say, we’d rather have work. Health insurance and mortgages don’t pay themselves.
20 years experience. My rate has hovered around 1600-1800 pre covid at the bigger shops; smaller agencies probably pay me 1400. Its been dry AF during the pandemic; lots of ghosting. I was asked to take a 20% discount by a big agency, I asked them to compromise at 5% and got the gig. But they nickel and dimed me on the hours, asking to pay a half day on a weekend (6 hours) and paying day rates for 12-14 hours.
Obviously at this point, with the standard of work in the industry being so low, there are very few reasons to still be doing this job. It’s not fun, it’s not prestigious; just casting a guy with novelty facial hair to regurgitate strategy department bullet points.
what are your plan B options? just curious
20 years Exp. writer. I’ve actually been making the same (1200 a day average) but the type of work has shifted. No network agency gigs. Small shops and production companies instead. Project rates and hourly. So I try to be efficient af. Mostly working alone as a strategist/writer. I used to run creative departments at solid agencies. I feel I have a lot of mentorship/leadership skills sitting idle. But I’m happy to be making a living during this. And the people I work with/for couldn’t be nicer.
Found an agency that pays my regular rate 1250 a day - no OT or weekend premium tho. Other than that been offered project rates where I have no room for negotiation (we have 4k for a week project, take or leave) as well as been flat out asked if I could reduce my rate because times are hard. Had the privilege of being able to ghost.
Subject Expert
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/news/talent-isnt-cheap-even-in-a-crisis-5278834
highlighted on Linkedin today
Been Billing $1200-1500 consistently through covid. Would have no problem going to $1200 as long as it’s w-9. Hardline $1500 at the holding co shops cause they tax the shit out of you on W-2.
Permalancing with a LA agency getting $600 day rate. I’m mid level with 4 yrs exp, female, BIPOC.
CD here 17 years exp —I’ve been getting $1200-$1600 consistently through this time my secret line in the sand is I just wont dip under $1000 - so far I haven’t had to dip that low although have turned down a few low ball jobs wanting me for like $800
You’d be lucky to get £400 in London at the moment. These rates are nuts
I haven't been able to secure any work but prepandemic I was getting 130/hr and between 1-1200k/day and now all I've been almost offered is 80/hr. So I'm trying to focus on finding something full time 😕
I'm a senior/ACD copywriter with 8 years exp (freelance for 2.5 years but had taken a full-time job at the end of last year that I've been furloughed from)
Sorry to hear. I hear that full-time people are being worked really hard. Hopefully the hiring freezes will lift soon and you will find something.
Subject Expert
https://joinfishbowl.com/post_nu7psr
was asked to drop my ACD rate from 100/hr to 70/hr, so yes exactly 30% cut
What city?? ACD in NYC should be 125 minimum (pre COVID)
I am an editor and I can tell you these rates are insane. Congrats.
Coach
Insanely good or insanely bad?
@Freelance Editor The fact that a 1400-1800 day rate sounds insane to you only solidified the fact that u should have been an editor
What does this mean?
Holy moly this thread freaks me out. Chicago rates aren’t even close to these.