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138k as an ACD in San Francisco - too low?
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Do you have a billable target? The pay is low, but it could be justified if you are given great work-life balance.
1st year
Pretty normal in the plaintiff world in my practice area in my city. One of the reasons I went to the defense side after fiver year. Proper pay and good benefits
Omg absolutely not. The juice is not worth the squeeze as Lizzo says. I was tremendously underpaid for the first five years of practice on the plaintiff side. Started at 45k (in 2016) and was at 60k (2021) when I went to defense. No 401k offered. And no benefits outside of hella expensive health insurance. The lack of boundaries for work and clients is not gonna work for me. Plaintiffs treat you like a counselor not a lawyer too often. I enjoy working at a larger firm with a lot better resources, better pay, and great benefits! I had four month off of maternity leave. Fully paid and no one bothered me for work while caring for my newborn. Now I understand that not all larger firms are great like the one I am at, but plaintiff firm aren't any better in my experience.
Time to start looking for a new job. You don't really have much to lose if they're only paying you $60k at this one.
The base was raised to $70k for next year… but I did the math and if I can only expect a similar bonus then I’m barely getting paid $27 p/hour 🫠
I guess I just thought compensation worked out differently in PI…what is considered normal?
70k base is super fair for like 2 years experience. The next step would be to negotiate a percent of the cases you settle, 5-10 percent of the attorneys fees is fair, and 25-35 percent of the fees if you originate the case.
Should I bring that up after I hit the 2 year mark? Or before?
I do get a 25% origination fee if I bring in cases and I brought three in this year but they’re not settled yet so I wasn’t expecting anything from that yet
Location is important too. Also, good PI firms will give you a percent (small) of every case you settle/win.
You’re welcome
Harsh truth bomb incoming! You’re a trainee. Some of y’all have never worked through a down job market and it shows. Those early years of scraping by are tough but look up the pay and work schedule of a new med school grad still in residency. Very similar salary and much worse schedule. Because you’re a trainee, you’re capable of a lot less than you realize. Look up the Dunning Kruger effect. Nose to the grindstone for now, see you in a few years. Or go find someone else willing to pay your more……if you can!
That's a fair question. Sorry my response was unnecessarily harsh. Depending on your locale, you might be able to do a little better somewhere else, but probably not much better in PI. Those first few years are really lean -- especially if you have student loans. You can at least benefit from the pause on interest right now. The key is to building your skills and becoming that irreplaceable person, that's when you start making better money. Bringing in your own clients is how you unlock the big big money, but that's MUCH easier said than done. I know lots of really good lawyers who would rather not deal with the hassle of generating clients and they still do very well for themselves, even though there is an upper limit on how well they can do.
While this can be true, some of us, (at least me) are outperforming far more senior attorneys. To assume experience is the end all be all is just plain wrong.
Some pilots fly 10,000 hours and others fly the same 1 hour 10,000 times.
Pay generally sucks in plaintiff’s side PI unless you’re getting a percentage of the cases you’re working on and the cases you’re bringing in.
If possible, negotiate a percentage for the cases you bring in & a separate percentage for the cases you work on; that way, you’re more incentivized to bring in your own book of business, but you won’t lose focus on settling/trying the cases that the firm gives you.
Once you learn the business & marketing side, you can branch out on your own and then you can hopefully earn even more.
This seems like a fair idea (and the way it was actually explained to me by my firm). I was told that since I’m an associate without a book of business, that when I work heavily on litigation cases that settle, the partners are supposed to be giving me a small percentage of that in my bonus. If I bring in a case, then I get a much larger origination fee.
I know when the cases I’ve worked substantially on settle and how much they settle for. I just feel kinda screwed over right now because I’ve researched, written, and argued multiple MSJs successfully over the past year. Things like that have directly led to my partners getting settlements to happen on cases they claimed were pretty much losers.
I feel like I’m not being credited for revenue that can be directly connected to my work product. Is there a good way to bring this up and still be respectful?
I’m about 75K base and 3 years in. 80k with bonus. Great work life balance in return
This is horrible. Consider leaving immediately.
What city?
We have an office in Tampa.. base salary for you is a little low. We also have a bonus structure that is laid out and assuming you’re working it’s much higher than $2500 a year.
You received more than a 10% raise and a reasonable bonus. You are no longer entitled to a participation trophy. If you want more, get cases and work harder. Be grateful and say thank you!
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Ok boomer
I understand your position well. I found myself in a similar situation to you years ago. I am now in my 12th year as a Plaintiff PI attorney. I will speak honestly, so if I come off early please don't take it personally.
Is $60K a year a bit low? Perhaps. Not egregiously so, but a bit on the low side. However, there are other factors to consider. What kind of experience are you getting? In smaller but lower paying firms, you often get exposed to aspects of the litigation and get experiences that you would never get at that point in your career in a big firm. You said your work life balance is good. That counts for a lot. If you made $120K but had to work 80 hours a week to earn it, you don't have a $120K a year job, you have two $60K a year jobs. Big law firms pay well but will often work you like a rented mule. It's a factor.
The other thing is that as a first year associate, you are in all reality, a glorified paralegal. Even if you think you know a lot, you probably don't. You need to have much of your work reviewed, you don't have autonomy (nor should you) to make major decisions, you don't try cases, and a paralegal who is an old grizzled, chain-smoking woman with barely a high school diploma who has been at this stuff for 30+ years knows civil procedure better than you do. All of this is OK, that's not a slight against you. You're still learning. But you also can't get ahead of yourself. IMHO, it isn't until about year 5 where you "just know" the answers to most questions and you can start to exercise real autonomy. With your 1 year of experience, I would ask you to ask yourself honestly, "My own compensation aside, could I open my own PI firm? Do I have the knowledge to handle the files on my own with no or virtually no help from other attorneys who are more experienced?" If the answer is no, and it probably is, then you need to check yourself.
The most important thing you should be considering right now is what kind of experience are you gaining. If you're not earning big money, you need to be gaining valuable experience in lieu of that. Going to court, writing briefs, examining real legal issues, drafting interrogatories, interacting with clients, negotiating settlements... being a LAWYER. That's what going to set you apart when your 4-5 rolls around and you're looking to take the next step.
Also, FWIW, the truth is that the key to unlocking big money on the Plaintiff side is bringing in your own files. This is not easy, but it also not as hard as it may seem. Talk to people. If you see a friend post a busted up car on FB, shoot them a message and be like, "hey, you ok? If you have questions I can help you." Stuff like that. You should get a big cut of the fee on files you bring in, like better than 1/3. If you grab a case, you can refer the file out to any competent PI attorney and get your 1/3, and you don't have to do anything else besides check your mail.