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Hey Sharks, I joined in verizon india last april, i got moved to new project at july end. I have 2.5 years of experience in java,springboot, Micrservices architecture. But in my new team deployed in a support project. Feeling depressed and frustrated. asked manager 2 times to change my responsibility. But he's accepting in call but not doing what he is promised. Please suggest what can i do here. Does droppeing paper is a good solution? Please suggest. Thanks in advance.Verizon
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Do you always need an MBA to get into MBB?
Anyone want to run Bain-style cases with me?
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At least for me, the intensity and quality of output is dramatically higher here than my B4. In my first few months, I was often off by 4-5x in LOE. I still remember telling my EM something would take ~2 weeks and her pausing before telling me it was ~12 hours of work and helping me plan it out.
Came from B4. The output is significantly better here. The bar is very very high. Note the resources are better too, and teams are a lot less lean here based off what I’ve seen.
So you look at your roommates deliverables, interesting...
Coach
Alternative opinion:
Quality of output on average is better than Big 4, but not more than say 25% better on average IMO, from what I saw. The best of Big 4 work will match the best of MBB work. Methodology doesn't matter that much ultimately. A top strategy consultant who came up through EYP or S& or Kearney is more similar to MBB consultants than they are not. It's just all relative.
Hours are a function of a couple things:
-Larger MBB projects have a workday/work evening component to it. Such projects will involve a lot of heavy client interaction and hand-holding/enablement during the workday, which means a lot of the work that (actually) needs to get done happens after 5PM.
- Everyone in MBB is conditioned to work longer hours/stay busy so a lot of partners are used to overpromising/over delivering because that's how they came up the ranks, which leads to more work that isn't always necessary
- MBB's client stakeholders are CxO or Board-level so expectations are demanding and timing is short = pressure
- Chasing precedent--MBB often sells what they've done before for a former client, but since that body of work and results was likely the result of excessive hours worked and data analysis, unfortunately it bleeds into your cookie-cutter project too, even if it's not needed
- MBB's prices are expensive so there's a want/need to show that the consultants are busy 24/7 for the client which means that if there's a lull, more work will often be created to fill it
- Teams run lean, so there's just more to do / person
Mentor
Higher impact, higher expectations, leaner teams, leaner turnarounds, etc
Came from Big 4. There are a select few pockets of teams at Big 4 that display similar rigor to that of MBB. There are always outliers, and I was one of them. With that said, there is generally a sizable gap in output quality and intellectual rigor. Really just has to do with price point and incentives of partners. I equate Big 4 partners to software sales people, they just sell in volume, the more standard the better, they don’t execute. Over time, this model leads to lower quality and lack of governance to show case teams what good looks like.
You all sound like a joy to work with...if you know your client, your presentation is a conversation guided by their responses.
Way...wah?
Fwiw when my friends at B4 describe the rigor and WLB of their projects, it sounds like it’s closer to my software friends than my work (ie they have been chilling for years, nobody gets transitioned out as long as they put in their good 6hrs of work everyday, etc). I’m talking about regular EY/ PwC folks. But from what I hear, the standards at EYP and S& are falling rather quickly too.
Came from B4 to MBB and in my experience the level of rigour is the same when it comes to research, analysis, slide making, etc.
The biggest difference difference I found though is that partners in MBB have way less sector expertise vs. big 4 partners so on every case the team is starting from a low base in terms of market knowledge and needs to work harder. There’s also a lot more emphasis on client management and presentation. For example, team members are mapped to different people at the client side and they have to manage that relationship. Partners prepare ahead of every presentation and everyone is expected to almost have a script when presenting and there’s so much stress around it. So on the client element there’s just a lot more stress which means you have to work more so that your presentation is on point. You’re also expected to prepare before every internal team meeting as well and there’s a lot of stress around that.
I'd argue that we run much leaner. I worked on a project side by side with a B4 team. The workloads were equal, the output and timelines were the same (just on slightly different areas of focus), and they had 2x the group than we do.
As for industry knowledge. It varies a lot on the topic and the study.
For the client management - I mean, that's a given. Clients expect a level of output. That level of output is different amongst people. You have to really zone in at times to make sure you achieve what they wanted.
Perhaps with the same budget, a bigger or longer B4 team will match an MBB team in terms of quality of output. In reality, clients often buy B4 to get a ‘discount’ and it backfires. I am doing a project right now that a B4 had for three months and then got fired from because they couldn’t make progress. Similarly, I have had multiple projects where I came in after a B4 to clean up a cookie cutter rec that was not fit for purpose.
MBB is pound for pound more expensive but some situations are better suited for that. I have had many voice of customer calls with PE firms in particular and they have a pretty nuanced view of which firm to use when. MBB for the higher complexity/higher risk/higher value.
Coach
@Bain1, Yes that's true, but you could also swap MBB and B4 in your example and it'd hold true too.
When I worked for a lower tier consultancy, we were often brought in, post-MBB, because those teams and engagements simply missed the mark in helping the client figure out WTF they needed to actually do.
Clients would hand us "the MBB deck" and it'd be pretty clear, from skimming it, why the client needed our help--recycled hypotheses cookie cutter recs, playbook regurgitation and so on. This was especially pronounced if the focus area had to do with anything digital with real implementation needs.
And once I was on the other side (at MBB), it was clear why. Every consultancy has weak spots and blind spots that can lead to this dynamic. MBB has tons of them. So do B4, Accenture, etc. The painful part is knowing we (MBB) were charging millions more for it, only to create the same (undesired) outcome.
Having been on both sides, I've seen all firms drop the ball with clients in ways surprising and not.