First year associate needing burnout advice. Started in January (Midwest AMLaw 100) and already on track for 2,400+ hours. Great that we are busy, but this is not sustainable.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

I had a similar experience in my first year bc the other two associates in my class year left a few months in and I got hit with that 2400 life. Just remember it won’t always be like that. Talk to your mentor and see if any associates might want to take some stuff off your plate. I guarantee there are a few first years who are chilling at the minimum and wish they had more

like

Hahahaha. Yep.

Recent IconRecent

Honestly I don't know how anyone works at firms like that. We aim for about 140 hours per month of billable time. Why these firms kill people is beyond me. Plus we are moving to fixed fees. smh. Personally if you don't like a 2000+ hour pace, I'd say hang in there at least a year, but look for other options.

like

Shareholder 1 you’ve got to tell us what area you practice in

The worst period of my work life was the last three years before I made partner, when I was averaging 2200 of like... not doc review. It triggered a latent autoimmune disorder and now I’m dealing with that. If you’re already feeling burned out after the first year, I’d recommend learning to say no (or switching to a firm where you feel like you can actually say no) before it costs you your health (or your ability to eat dairy and gluten, ugh).

like

Not all billable hours are created equal. A 200-hour month of “not doc review” can be so taxing.

like

Hit your target then ghost. It'll really take the pressure off by fall.

like

How do you bill that much as a first year lit associate? Is it all doc review?

like

these are not unusual hours for a junior lit associate at a busy practice: 2400/yr = 200/month = 50/wk. And if you’re on busy matters, that’s not hard to hit.

like

If I was a client and found out a first year working on my stuff was billing 2400 plus without being on trial, I would immediately assume I was being defrauded or that the quality of work is slipping. Unless there’s a steady flow of adderal coursing through your veins, I can’t even imagine doing a decent job researching and writing on all assignments at a 2400 plus a year pace - not even in my 20s when i had probably 15x more energy and ambition than I do now. That’s not a sustainable pace I don’t care what anyone says. Anyone who says otherwise is a psychopath or perpetrating billing fraud. Don’t listen to them. Set some limits or get out.

like

Corporate or Lit?

I guess looking back I was always thankful to be busy, but sometimes I was working way too many hours. During the first few years it’s all about distinguishing yourself if that is something you want to do. If big firm life is not your long term plan, try and use the time to learn as much as you can about as many things as you can while you map out where you want your law degree to take you. I remember reflecting long ago that after several years I became an expert in many topics by virtue of being immersed in so many different things.
I will also point out that even if you’re in litigation, find ways to ultimately get exposure on the transactional side. Trust me, it will help. But most of all, find some place to work where you don’t dread going to work, but rather are excited about what the day might bring!

likehelpful

what’s your work vs bill ratio? because 4, 200-hour billable months in a row shouldn’t have you that worn out unless you’re writing down/taking much longer to get to those hours.

Plus there’s the whole “being treated with respect and courtesy by one’s coworkers instead of constantly quaking in fear of not making partner and being asked to leave.” Like I said, I didn’t leave because of law firm hours.

Related Posts

Hi Fishes,
What kind of work is done in GCR Tax? Is there decent wlb?? Can someone pls share the hierarchy structure in GCR

like

How many hours do you actually work on an average day?

like

Hi Fishes, I'm a SDET with 6 years of experience in Python Automation with Selenium having multiple offers. Can anyone please help me to choose one best offer from below with respect to work culture, flexible hours, wlb for female employees?

Zesta Solutions - 19 LPA (10% VP) & Hybrid
Unify Technologies - 20 LPA Fixed & WFH
EY - 20 LPA Fixed & Hybrid
Concentrix - 20 LPA Fixed & WFH
Global logic - 26 LPA Fixed & Hybrid
Value labs - 26 LPA Fixed & WFH
Cyber ark - 30 LPA Fixed & Hybrid

like

2020 grad M&A/PE Associate in LCOL area thinking about moving to a ECVC/M&A boutique. I generally like the work I do and the people I work with, but I really don’t like the hours and the constant late nights and weekends. Currently on pace for 2250. Boutique I have been eyeing has billable hour requirement of 1500-1600 and comes with a 20-25% paycut. Is this a stupid idea and should I grind it out until I can move in house? Will this ruin my opportunities down the road?

like

How do you spend your precious unwinding time after work? I love binge watching tv shows but realize it’s probably not the healthiest way to wind after a stressful day. Anything fun / low stress yall do?

Note; working out is not a relaxing activity for me so don’t even start with that. Also I am single and have no kids so ..

like

Partners/Principals - how do you focus and continue to work at the same rigor, if you have made your numbers or 75% of your numbers? Do you take it easy or continue to grind/ work long hours as usual?

like

Hello Fishes,

Can anyone help me understand the Wipro (Blackstone COE)’s WLB, Growth, Future opportunities like Big4, Incentives.

Also, what is this company actually? a BPO?

Role offered: Valuation Analyst (salary at this role)

Anyone available for DM please do let me know.

Blackstone

like

Best to Worst in terms of work-life balance: Tech Trans, M&A or Capital Markets? (California if that makes a difference)

like

Role: Project Manager
Yoe: 14
Mastercard vs EY. What would be better option for tpm role at mastercard vs pm at ey. Work life balance is important.

like

How’s WLB at EY pune? I am planning to apply for AWS devops or SRE lead position.

like

Hi all,

I have offer from
Lowe’s- 23L fixed 10% variable
Born group- 24.5 fixed 2L variable

Over all yoe -6
React - 1.5

Looking for work life balance and less work pressure as I am not confident enough to work in react.. so would take more time to implement things and need help also

Please help me chose …

like

Hi Folks,

I wanted to know about the work life balance at Bain and Company in the global people analytics department?
And what yearly appraisals one can expect?

Thanks

like

Has anyone just taken a break from work without anything lined up? Every offer I’ve gotten wants me to start in a month and with 2 weeks notice that leaves me only 2 weeks to recharge. For my mental health I really think I need an extended break (like 3 months). I have about 60k liquid to sustain myself and pay about $1500 a month in rent.

like
like

Hi all, Which company is good to join ? if offer is almost same based on work life balance, flexible working hour, work culture.

1. Cognizant
2. TCS
3. Capgemini

like

Deloitte vs Accenture Workday practice.

Which one is better in terms of culture, projects and WLB

need review on Work life balance and work culture at Bank of America Global Banking and Markets FP&A Projects team, Gurgaon.

Please reply. I need to make a decision.

like

How is the WLB of a Business Analyst - Team Lead at Paytm? Any Pros/Cons.

Is Federal/Public Sector consulting fulfilling work? I'm at a tier 2 consulting firm right now focused on retail clients, and I just feel like there is zero point to this work. Its all about increasing sales of a product that people could easily live without. As an Associate, I just move boxes around on PPT slides all day. Looking for better WLB and fulfillment in my work, thinking that might be Public Sector work.

likefunny

Hello Everyone!

I am an ETL Developer with 9+ YOE. I have job offers from the below companies with almost same compensation. Can you suggest which is a good option to join if job security and work life balance is of priority?

1. Luxoft India LLP (A DXC acquired company)
2. HCL Technologies
3. Legato Health Technologies
4. Cognizant Technology Solutions

Looking forward for your feedback and suggestions.

Thank you in advance.

like

More Posts

Dear Fishes,

I have taken 4 technical and 1 manager(final round) round in company A and currently awaiting their
response.Company A entire process took 5 months.
In between I got an offer from company B and currently serving notice.
Can I inform Company A about serving notice period?

Can you help taking this decision.
I work as a DBA

like

Question about my side hustle - I'm an Instagram wellness blogger just getting started and at about 2K followers. Don't want to have all my eggs in one basket and looking into expanding to another platform. Weighing the following options : basic website, newsletter, podcast (podcast would complement or replace IG Live interviews that I currently do).

Any advice on the best next step?

like

Salary range of Associate Consultant in KPMG?

like

Insights on Foley & Lardner in general - smaller market office?

like

Is there another bigger bowl for all IBm employees ? Can anyone please share the link ?

Can someone please suggest me a good course on Salesforce?

I am a starter and have zero knowledge about Salesforce

like

Hi, is anyone's company looking for a
Market Research, Strategy or Business
Analyst with 2 years experience across
tech alliances, corporate strategy and
SaaS product operations with a top
engineering school background? I'm on
stem OPT and from the U.K., working in
the US and looking to change employers
to explore new opportunities, so
immigrant friendly is a huge plus. It
would be my pleasure to get you that
referral bonus. I'd love to connect via
Linkedin as well.

like

@ZS folks - would you move from big 4 manager to asc consultant at ZS? Strat insights and planning team. The offer is higher salary than mine but not by as much as I thought. -My questions are, what percentage of work is growth strategy? Any deals?
-How is WLB? Many weekends? What’s start / finish time would you say?
- What sort of exit ops do you see your peers going to? (non healthcare)
-professional development (mba, office mobility)

like

Hi fishes,

I am trying to download my salary certificate from the alumni portal (2016) but the pdf is password protected. I tried entering my employee id but it is not working. Can somebody help me with the password format?
Thanks and miss infy a lot

like

3/29 Thread (General):

like

NDAs - signed my first one as a part of a severance agreement. thinking about leaving an honest review for this company, but unsure about the liabilities that come with this. (NDA mentioned no defamation) leaning on the side of letting it go, but this employer sucked BAD and i want others to know. ik its hard to give a straight answer bc it depends on the agreement, but wheres the line between bad mouthing vs your honest experience?

like

When listening to these RNC speeches, I can’t help but to think these people are living in an alternate universe. Some of the stuff they are talking about is just plan ba

likefunny

I'm interviewing at a SaaS company that has about 50 people. What's a good way to figure out how financially stable they are? What questions can I ask in an interview? I don't want them to turn around in 6 months and lay me off because the economy isn't doing well.

Hello fish, I’m wanting to move from London to Singapore at Manager level in operating model design. Anybody have any recommendations of companies (aside Big4) that are sponsoring visas at the moment, or good international recruitment agencies? Seems highly network driven from what I’ve seen.

Curious what anyone thinks about cologne? Is it a turn on? I am not really into it.. but I just got a whiff of this dude at the gym and the cologne did something to me 🥰 It was really subtle. I tend to just like the way a man smells (not body odor but just natural scent) and don’t usually like it covered up, but wow this guy tonight 🥵 I might might buy some but i figured it would be gay to ask him “what are you wearing” because that prob isn’t something the bros at the gym do.

like

has 2023 recruiting already kicked off? im a consultant and had a recruiter reach out asking if i didnt partake

like

Planning a trip to Japan, primarily Tokyo. What would be a good length of time to stay and some good places to visit while being there?

New to an enterprise sales role. What’s the one thing you wish you knew or would have done differently when you started out?

like

Senior analysts - how’s your WLB? What do think about returning to full travel?

Any good bomber jackets for men slim fit? TIA :)

Additional Posts in Law

I was passed over for partner but will make of counsel at a V50 firm. I’ve put in the work to make partner, but the firm is making very few this year (less than 10). Am I wrong to feel disrespected?

like

My local Safeway is already stocking Valentine's Day chocolates. What would they do without holiday candy to sell? Is this their main purpose? I wonder what they do in off season (if that exists)

likefunny

PSA to anyone doing transactional work - learn to make an org chart in Microsoft office using SmartArt. It’s super easy and for some reason Borrowers and Lenders both seem incapable of making them so you’ll look way smarter than you are.

likesmart

Nine months on the job, 2019 graduate, feeling very ill-equip and self-conscious about making mistakes. My review went well, just had one partner who is generally difficult to get a hold of and who doesn’t actually respond say I need to ask more questions. How do I get out of this rut of feeling useless and like I’m not contributing to my job?

like

Does anyone teach a law school class in the evening once a week or so in addition to full-time job? If so, can you speak to your experiences and if you find juggling the two to be stressful? Also salary for teaching.

likesmarthelpfulfunny

Q’s for hiring partners and recruiters - you know that most associates quit their managing attorneys and not the firm/case. I’m in that boat. What do I say to a prospective employer about the situation of why I want to jump ship?

Very brief background - I’m a senior associate who has been on one complex commercial litigation case for over a year. Over time, the relationships between attorneys on the case have deteriorated to the point that it is affecting my productivity/work. I want out.

like

People who lateraled during COVID: What did you do for the first two weeks? How did you make your presence known remotely to try and get assignments?

like

Why do firms have offices in Palo Alto AND Menlo Park AND SF??

like

Raise your hand if you have to work over the weekend (even though the juniors under you don’t have to)?! ✋

like

Why do partners tell associates to be cost-conscious when billing for certain clients when they can just cut your hours on the back end?

like

I am an incoming third year associate in an AmLaw 20 firm at New York. Although I do enjoy the work, I’m constantly questioning myself and my abilities. The work hours are quite bad too. Just out of the blue I interviewed for an AmLaw 70 firm in New York and they extended me an offer. Any advice on the pros and cons would be really appreciated!

like

What’s the least amount of socially acceptable time to stay in a role as a new associate?

like

Best approaches to get my partners to help with my push to partnership? Appraisal meeting coming up soon.

like

I joined fishbowl a month ago and while I’ve seen a couple contentious debates but I must say I’m pleasantly surprised at how respectfully ppl comment on this app even when disagreeing. Usually anonymity on the internet brings out the absolute worst in ppl; they type things anonymously that they would NEVER say in person smh. But I really haven’t seen horrible comments here. I wonder what makes this app diff frm others?

like

Does anyone here work in-house? Or as an outside GC to a company?

like

Is there an appropriate way to turn down an assignment because it is non-billable? Two of the partners I work for keep asking me to write client bulletins and articles with them, which is great, but now I’m starting to worry about meeting my billable hours requirement.

like

How big is your firm and what does your attorney retreat look like?

likefunny

Is anyone following the sale of Liverpool FC? My boyfriend mentioned it to me and whilst I’m not a football fanatic although can loosely follow the game, it has sparked some curiosity from a transactional pov.

like

On average, how many clients do you work on in a day?

like

I saw that a client is posting a job for which I would be a perfect fit. They are essentially looking to add someone to their in-house that does what we do in the firm for them. Is it risky for me to apply? Or is it not that big of a deal?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal