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Any folks at EY willing to refer ?
Partner Interview (6th interview).
Good or Bad?
My referral had interviews w/ (1)
recruiter, (1) SM, then the series of
(3) 1:1's w/(1) MD and (2) SM's.
The recruiter said he will now have
an interview in Jan. w/ the PPMD.
He interviewed for a M role in
consulting for customer marketing.
11 YOFE
He does have a wide skill set and the
recruiter said it was all positive
feedback, just have to find out
where to put him (on the team he
interviewed for or another he is
qualified for).Deloitte
Pro
Is it true that TCS rehiring their ex-employees?
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I am in a similar position to you. I resigned last week. I have nothing lined up but the balance has changed for me so much recently that the idea of not having a job or anything else lined up is less anxiety-inducing than staying in a job that is actively destroying every single bit of my physical and mental health. I will be using my savings and also think I’ll have around 8 months. That is plenty of time to find something else and also to rest, recover and most importantly, live rather than just barely survive. You will absolutely land on your feet. Life is far too short to be so miserable, especially for a job that would so easily replace you.
Coach
A4 How bad was this job A4? What class year? practice group?
OP, take these comments with a grain of salt. These people are incapable of an objective assessment; they are clearly blinded by their golden handcuffs and learned helplessness. Yes, by resigning with nothing lined up, you may be risking an easy path to making 200/300k+ for the rest of your life, or at least may be taking a detour. Is that what you want from life — at any cost? If yes, then listen to these comments. If you’re ok with taking risks, comfortable networking, and/or open to other opportunities (gov’t, smaller firms, etc), then follow your intuition. There is literally nothing forcing us to stay in this industry. You need to take control of your life.
A recruiter can help OP find a job outside of BL.
Sounds like you’d be better off asking for some leave for mental health purposes rather than just quitting. Maybe the leave will do you good and you can come back to work feeling good about yourself, and maybe it will make you realize you need to leave biglaw permanently and you can start looking for jobs while on leave and so technically still employed by your firm. Either way you’re better off than just quitting.
Mentor
Totally agree that a second leave is appropriate. Sounds like you need the health insurance to help support your ongoing mental health needs. I’d take leave and work with your treatment team during that time to plan your exit strategy.
Mentor
Before you quit go and exhaust FMLA leave. If you already took some, but still have time left, ask for the rest of it. Use the benefit resources at your firm (EAP, career counseling). If you're already going to leave with nothing lined up, then there's no point in not asking for all the resources available to - ask professional development if they can recommend a career coach or something. I know usually associates avoid saying anything that indicates you want to leave but you're on the verge of quitting with nothing else lined up so use the vast resources at your firm to find something else instead of just quitting and having to pay for coaching/therapy/etc yourself.
Coach
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If you’re ready to quit anyway, really really start pushing back. “Sorry, I will not have time to get to this.” What’s the worst they can do, fire you from the job you were ready to quit anyway?
Sorry that you're experiencing this friend, while I agree that no one should live like this at all, I would be a bit hesitant to pull the trigger. I think the big question that I'd ask myself (and apologies if you've already asked yourself this and have reached a sound conclusion) is "could my anxiety actually be increased by leaving this job without anything else lined up?" Especially considering that you have loans and other ongoing bill obligations (phone, car, housing, etc.) that can quickly add up. Added with the fact that it could be a decent amount of time before you find another job. Are you the type to get antsy and do you find a lot of security in employment? I'm not trying to minimize your experience or what you're going through, and the fact that you're considering leaving without anything else lined up and having loans suggests that the job is taking a massive toll on you, but just my 2 cents. And also, I'd urge you to reach out to folks who know you directly too and get their perspective on it - again, you have to live your life so you should take all of our input with a lil grain of salt (it's easy to say stick it out when it's not you), but they will know you better and can support you in both instances.
This was my experience.
Continued: After being back in big law, I realize I’m willing to take a hug pay/prestige/interesting-ness of work cut for my mental/physical health.
Grateful that I live below my means and have savings. So can make it like 8-10 months without income.
I will say that being without a job and health insurance has been one of the most stressful experience in my life. I suffered a lot of anxiety / depression in biglaw but this was another level. Having the job search go nowhere for months on end - without a place to return - didn’t exactly do wonders for my mental health (I sank into a deep depression). Which may be why people are recommending another leave.
Genuine question - why do people with great academic pedigrees and a couple of YOE at top firms struggle to find jobs? Yeah, 2-3 YOE is junior, but still... the job search seems way harsher than one would expect in this profession.
A5 - been thinking the same myself. I guess biglaw lawyers are a somewhat specialised commodity in the job market as a whole. So, a M&A / PE lawyer has a relatively limited pool of opportunities to throw their hat in the ring for.
Comparatively speaking, a junior banker with similar years of exp has a far wider remit, i.e PE, asset management, strategy / management consulting, corp development, tech/ sales etc.
I wish there were better/more common non-legal exit opportunities for big law lawyers. It’s pretty much just legal recruiting/law-adjacent roles, and once in a blue moon a consulting gig, right? Really sucks to come all this way and discover law might not be right for you.
Get a recruiter (respond to one of their many e-mails or ask someone you trust for a good one) and let them do their job, which should be easier if you are willing to work for less prestigious firms. In the meantime, just do your best to deal with current workload and avoid new work.
Doing things this way keeps you getting a paycheck while you transition to your next job. Of course, if the anxiety/panic attacks you have are severe, prioritize your health (including mental health) and give notice. But just having a plan in place and a recruiter helping you out might give you enough mental reserve to stick it out, knowing that it is temporary. Only you know best.
I agree with A3. Also consider that it is much easier to find a job when you still have one! Inherent bias creeps in when companies interview people who aren't currently working. That's why many, many firms offer a few months of pay and website time even if they're pushing people out for performance issues.
Enthusiast
I dipped with nothing lined up. Can’t say I landed on my feet, because I’m over the whole legal game. I’m living in a van, climbing rocks, kinda doing whatever. Pretty affordable on biglaw savings while I figure out something that isn’t as much of a hellscape for the next gig. You can think way outside the box, even though people will have you believe you’re doomed to a life of biglaw adjacent roles (in-house, recruiting, etc) just because you did this. There’s a big world out there.
Wow thanks for sharing! How long were you in BL? And how long has it been since you quit?
Enthusiast
Definitely think leaving without anything lined up is a good move, but in the meanwhile does it help to remember that this job generally speaking is not life or death? Meaning no one's life is at stake based on your performance. Might not help everyone but it decreases my anxiety to remember that
Enthusiast
This is what helps me too. I also knew going in that I want to go in-house as soon as I can, and never want to become a partner anywhere, so I try not to let the small stuff get to me.
I had this exact experience during all 5 of my biglaw years. Panic attacks, couldn’t sleep because my mind raced with anxiety all day, gained a ton of weight, could feel my blood pressure rise when my phone vibrated. It was never ending and I was a slowly sinking ship. But I agree with A2–definitely weigh the impact that a potentially extended period of unemployment could have on You in the alternative. Also the impact of having to take whatever random job comes along etc. I agree that it may be your best bet to try to cut down where you can at your current job while you figure things out with your treatment team, work on strategies to let go of the need to perform, and make sure you’re giving yourself the best shot possible at finding a good next role by remaining employed during the job search. Does your firm offer reduced pace or anything like that?
Subject Expert
There is another option—long term disability leave. Typically, once you exhaust short term disability leave through your firm, there is something called income protection insurance that kicks in. You must have elected this coverage and if so, you have already been paying the monthly premiums. Mental health conditions can qualify you for such leaves, though there may be a two year cap on benefits. It’s a higher standard to qualify for this than for short term disability, but given how debilitating mental health conditions can be for lawyers, it’s possible to meet that standard.
Totally get it. This is why I left. Honestly, best feeling ever. However I did make sure to have a job lined up, and took off 4 weeks in between. I think with nothing lined up, I would have spiraled.
I know you say no time to search while working, but that's not true. Just readjust your priorities. You know you're leaving, so fuck the firm. The other thing you could do is take vacation, leave, a sick week, whatever to really focus on applying.
So i left without anything lined up but got hired about 2.5 weeks thereafter with a start date three months out, which gave me time to travel, recollect, relax, etc. I think i just lucked out with how everything shook out so i wouldnt say its impossible or the worst decision. However, i do realize that it could have turned out poorly too. It’s definitely a risk of many unknowns. If youre suffering and you feel that you must quit, do it. If you have some energy left, at least get a recruiter started now.
When was this? What practice area?
Is there a trusted senior or partner who you can confide in? I have acute anxiety. Building trusting relationships with people above me where I feel like I can talk to them is what has gotten me through for the past 7 years. I wonder if that might be worth exploring - at the very least, you won’t feel like you’re in an emergency situation.
Mentor
Agree with this - when an associate comes to me and tells me they want to leave big law and need help, I do whatever I can to help (I have reviewed their resumes, been their reference, etc.). A trusted person who you know isn't going to run around behind your back can really help you figure this out, or at least be supportive. If you don't have that person, ask one of your friends at the firm who they would go to.
I was feeling the same and decided to look for a role with less billables and better work life balance. When I decided to look elsewhere I limited my hours to roughly 9-5 and did the bare minimum needed to keep my head above water. Still did good work, but cared a lot less about the bs metrics since I knew I was leaving. Maybe take a vacation or treat yourself to make it a little more bearable, but otherwise save as much money as you can while on the biglaw salary. I’m a month into my new role, and it was 100% worth the pay cut
what are you doing now?
Thanks everyone for your thoughts - really appreciate it
You may want to see if you have a mental health condition — like bipolar depression or whatever — that qualifies you for short term or long term disability insurance through your firm BEFORE you quit, bc you could lose that insurance upon quitting. But to manage expectations, even if you currently have disability insurance, I suspect it’s hard as hell to qualify for benefits based on mental health issues (otherwise law firms would be virtually uninsurable due to claim costs).
I say this bc my friend expressed bipolar in his late twenties and quit his high paying PE gig, and I sometimes wonder if things would have turned out better if he’d thought to try for disability insurance.
Mental health issues qualify. Long term disability often has a 2 year sunset for mental health issues though so they are not paying for years and years.