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So I recently applied for a position as a training specialist, but I feel like I’m more than qualified to look for other roles. I have work in finance, but I do have my PMP, but I haven’t led any large projects, just assisted on them any advice to a young professional that just graduated with an MPA Fiserv, Inc
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Absolutely; it seems like mid-40s is more or less the upper limit. At that point your salary and willingness to speak truth to power start to work against you. My advice: get out in your mid-30s. Go client side or join a consulting firm; your experience will be more valued there than if you stay at an agency.
I was pushed out at 46 and frankly can’t believe I lasted that long. I’m doing consulting work now and make more than I did on the agency side. The math is pretty simple - an agency bills out your hours at a 2.5-3X multiple of your salary in order to cover their fixed expenses, your benefits, profit, holding company ‘tax,’ and all that overhead (C-suite, accounting, HR, IT, etc.) You can bill your time out for the same rate or less and you get to keep it - minus taxes and healthcare costs of course. :)
Somehow I squeezed through as a Copywriter/Creative Director until I was in my mid 60’s. Then I switched to Marketing Comminications and Branding Strategist that lasted for a couple years.
I still get some work from past clients, but it’s very rare. Then for a while I sold women’s shoes at Nordstrom My advertising background served me well. Sorta.
I was a terrific salesperson, but absolutely terrible ringing up sales. Not surprising for a creative who built a career coloring outside the lines.
By mistake, I once hit the wrong keys and charged a woman &118,000 for a pair of shoes.
She was appalled. “Do you know you just changed me $118,000,” she said indignantly.
“Yes, ma’am. But they were very nice shoes.” Fortunately, she laughed.
I still believe in using my talent and energy to make a difference and prove I’m still valuable. In both projects, I’m in way over my head.
I’m trying to make Earth Day 2020 (April 22, 2020) a climate changing event. Trump is no longer just threatening America. His disastrous presidency threatens the planet. If he wins,
Earth will lose.
I’m not ready to reveal specifics because, “A hatching bird does not sing in its nest.” (I Ching)
My advice to others is not to try to change the world. Changing one life is admirable. Initiate your own project. Volunteer for a good cause. Give your time to any project that matters to you.
Find your own way to “pay it forward.” You will be surprised at how much it will give back to you. Jack
I wish someone would've told me when I was right out of school and eagerly joining the industry that I'd have a big SELL BY day stamped on my forehead by 40. I'm not even there yet but I'm bracing myself and planning for a future beyond agencies.
During a high-profile pitch one summer, the managing director of my office - one who has been lauded recently in the press for some other enlightening thinking BS - looked right past me and said "we need to find young people for this pitch video [to show off our agency to prospective client]." Dear Fishbowl, I was only 34.
34! And with a great rep and on the cusp of being my best. I should've known when the only people I saw past 50 were chairmen and c-suite. And yes, they are mostly privileged white men at that, of course.
I'm doing my best to change things, but I can't do it alone and by god, I'm tired. Full stop.
I teach at MAS and I DO tell them that most of them will be toast by the time they’re 40. Some believe me. But I’ve been teaching there for over 10 years and I’ve had some students from Way Back When complaining that they’ve been fired and can’t find a new job. It’s all I can do not to say “I told you so!” It’s hard for people to believe it’s going to happen to them.
I am absolutely horrified to read this thread. We WILL change this. https://adage.com/article/opinion/opinion-eight-ways-turn-ageism-its-head/2174851 #liveolder #sayyourage
https://www.wsj.com/articles/its-never-too-late-to-start-a-brilliant-career-11556896617
I’m 46, but nobody I’ve worked with knows my real age. I can probably pass for 10 years younger on a good day when I’ve had lots of sleep and drank lots of fluids. My wife is 41, also a creative and she has made the jump to client side. She’s trying to convince me of doing the same thing and I think she’s right. But for all the terrible things this industry has, I still love advertising and the creative process and producing something I’m proud of.
As you age in this business, you either become a legend or a has been. 99% of us aren’t going to be Lee Clow. But I think there’s something to be said about staying on top of pop culture, technology and trends, while keeping the fire in your belly burning for what attracted you to this industry in the first place. I still get butterflies in my stomach at the prospect of a good creative opportunity.
I was laid off about a year ago. We moved and changed cities for my wife’s job. I took some time off to be with my kid and I just recently started looking for work again and freelancing.
I just got approached for freelance work by a small agency founded by an ex-ECD of a major network agency. I won’t name names, but this person is an advertising legend and you all know this person’s work. He’s well into his 50’s. His little agency has been quietly taking business away from much larger and very well known agencies. The creative this agency has been putting out is fucking great. Not Titanium Lion great. I don’t even think they’re interested in entering work into the shows. It’s just great honest, smart, well crafted work that’s loved by clients, consumers and that most creatives would love to work on. They just do the campaign platforms and top funnel campaigns. They don’t do any of the everyday bullshit banner garbage that has become this business’ hell.
His core agency team is small, but mostly people over 40 with great experience. Two account directors, one CD besides him and a couple seasoned strategists. Then for creative, he hires the best freelance creatives he can find: Ex-W+K’s, other ex-ECDs and other people with long ass lists of awards and proven track records and results, but who somehow don’t really care about all that award bullshit anymore. Just people who want to keep doing great work without playing games.
Obviously since he looks for good creatives that can hit the ground running, have great craft and have been around the block and know exactly what they’re doing, all are over 40. There’s no juniors or mid-levels or even seniors. Everyone’s experience level is ACD or above.
For this one project I got asked to work on, there’s 4 creatives working on. All of us over 40. All working remote scattered across the country. All of us know our shit and have proven confident skills. As the least pedigreed of the bunch, it has been inspiring to see this and to have been invited to be part of it, even if it’s just for this one project. This renegade small band of 40-50 somethings are just doing what they do best: winning pitches, cutting the bullshit, making money and producing awesome work for this lean mean old fart ad-machine.
I will probably heed my wife’s advice and go work client side soon. But in the meantime, it has been inspiring to see some people not give a fuck and use their experience and talent to their advantage, laughing all the way to the bank, while others had already written them off as liabilities.
I laugh when I think how many probably agencies laid those people off or didn’t hire them because “they were too expensive” only to now be losing accounts to them. Remember, if you don’t hire the most experienced people, your competition will and they will beat your ass with them.
What is this agency please?
Two years ago at 45. I’m 47 now. I’ve had the slowest year I’ve had in my entire career. I’m actually having a bit of a crisis: is it time to do something else? Maybe.
It’s not age. It’s salary.
Definitely both
At 43 I find it’s harder to find a fit, but it’s possible. I did. I find it’s less about me being older and more about a cultural fit being increasingly important to me. I’m pickier and have much less interest and patience in playing the political game.
@publicis Sapient Exactly. I have developed and continue to maintain great relationships with many people in this industry. I have a solid network of like-minded professionals. But the political game is different. It’s deliberately manipulative and I won’t play that way. If this has compromised my opportunities at certain agencies along the way, so be it. I’m in a smaller independent agency now where senior management are transparent, straightforward, and reward the work. It’s refreshing.
I am a female CD and will be 62 in July. I’ve worked at top agencies. Have a slew of awards. When I started freelancing, I was always triple-booked. I have done everything in my power to remain relevant; I never stopped working. I am agile, current and experienced. I’ve always said I was married to my work and it’s been a very happy marriage. Not anymore. 200+ online job applications and counting. I kid you not. I love this business and refuse to go quietly or gracefully. I’m actively speaking out about ageism and have launched the fiftyoverfiftyproject.com - a site that celebrates people over age 50 who are #smashingstereotypes. Anyone following this thread, who is interested, frustrated, angry, depressed or looking for solutions, I would love to hear from you. It’s not you. It’s ageism and it’s real. https://m.facebook.com/smashingstereotypes/photos/a.913456825489242/932588153576109/?type=3&source=45
I’m in.
Left at age 34 to B2B tech in UX/UI. I could see the writing on the wall both in terms of ageism and where the industry was heading. Best decision I’ve ever made.
I left at 37 for client side. Same reason. I’ve had an especially slow year, though. Then again, I’ve been turning down gigs because I just don’t want to commute for 3-4 hours a day into the city. (I think I moved too far away). 🥴
Thot the best thing I did was quit my big agency job. Took a break n by default an ex client ask me the setup an agency.. I m 48 now! Going into my 9th year, had grown the agency quite a bit. Missed the days when I only had few pple...
Love what I do, and now venturing into other biz that is not advertising. With our knowledge n skills we could do anything, we could brand any shit n make it happen! Life is so much beta outa the big agency! All said, never stop learning, go learn coding, UX, UI, animation, learn to play an instrument, this is the best time for pple our age, we hve so much experience n craft which the young ones don’t hve the patience to do, we only need the knowledge to apply!!
-what are you focusing on now?
-are you hiring? 😆
Without a doubt. Especially in creative. The only thing you can do is prove that you understand new media and know how to write art direct and conceptualize for all platforms, etc. Us older creatives also have a lot of tricks up our sleeve that can only come with experience (the volume of ideas we've explored, the number of categories we have experience in). But the problem is that people value youth more than experience. This is a shallow business, period. I don't even think it's a fully conscious thing when recruiters, clients and other creatives dismiss you due to age. It's just life. For example, a 30 year old can present the same idea that a 50 year old presents, but it can come across as creepy or awkward or trying too hard when it comes from the 50 year old.
49.
After the last time I got shotcanned, I stopped trying for full time ECD/CD roles and now focus on freelance. Not regretting it.
Definitely. I'm 42 now and have been feeling it for the past year. I actually had someone laugh in my face when I told him my age. I need out of this industry.
CS1 - they go to industry (client side) and make much more money. Just like any consulting type job.
This whole industry is bullshit and in no way the kind of place to make a long-term career. I have a resume filled with awards, global campaigns, many very well-respected agencies and lots of household-name clients and I still cannot find anyone who wants to hire me. I’m 47 and have an excellent track record and like to think I’m honestly a really nice person to work with. I get bites once in a while and then they see my grey hair, previous $200k salary, accolades, and immediately hit the “sorry” button. I wish I had gone into a different field entirely at this point, even if it meant boredom or selling out. Just because I chose the path I loved and held to my guns, I’m now struggling to even make a buck. To emphasize this point and not make it just about me, I know 5 other people at my level who are all in the same place. Those 5 people all know 5 other people who are in the same place. This is an epidemic, not a pity party.
If anyone reading this thread will be at Cannes, please come to this. #liveolder #sayyourage
49 - So I started my own company. Now the challenge is finding investors ... as a 49 year old woman. The odds are not in my favor, but I’m not letting that stop me.
Check out https://www.howwomenlead.com/howwomeninvest. Julie Castro Abrams is a force to be reckoned with and committed to helping women succeed with VC’s, senior leadership, and philanthropic ventures.
47 here. Career filled with launching well-known products for respected brands, global brand campaigns, awards, digital marketing certifications, managing teams of 20+ people, budgets of over $40 million. Laid off at 45, can’t find anyone who even wants to look at me. I’m actually applying for roles I did 15 years ago, hoping somebody will want the extra experience for a bargain. Nope. No takers. I keep thinking “So this is how people end up at Home Depot wearing an orange vest in their 50s.” It’s just sad. I wish I could go back and tell my 18 year old college self to change majors. This is not a career, it’s a 20-year job at best that doesn’t end well for most.
Also, everyone looking for a job, please join https://www.wearerosie.com/. I agreed to sit on their advisory board because they are the future of advertising. When I say to women/POC/LGBTQ/disabled/older - everyone in our industry who is considered ‘other’ - “Start your own industry”, this is what I mean.
38 transitioned from creative into production. if anyone of you senior citizens is starting a company and needs help...contact me here, an aging creative who is organized but lacks the zest of a young blonde from the midwest.
You can be blonde well into your 80s, my friend. Bleach has no expiration date. Jane Fonda is still killing it.
59, just got laid off for the 3rd time in 10 years. Bounced back each time but this one IDK. Freelancing now, looking for next act, or client side. Not sure what I want to be when I grow up...
In the UK a senior creative usually has at least 10 years experience. Whereas here, a creative with 3 years under their belt is a senior. How can a 26 year old be a senior creative? No wonder a 40 year old is considered ancient.
It wasn’t always that way. But agree, it’s bullshit.