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Hey, I am looking for Operation/ Audit role for USA company. Can any one help me here. Currently working with MNC whos base is managing client books of accounts, esp for USA clients. Also, have a good grasp on SALT(State and Local Taxes) for these (Sales Tax, local tax, business tax). Please DM me. Happy to work remotely or need be immigrate but would required visa support. Accenture Deloitte KPMG Google EY PwC CohnReznick Tata Consultancy Infosys Wipro Cognizant Microsoft Adobe Walmart Cisco
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Rising Star
I make $250k in house and work basically 9-5. I get 26 PTO days that I’m expected to use, plus 20 other built in days including the week of Christmas to New Years. I also get half days on Friday over the summer. Go to the office once or twice per week. When my next child is born over the summer I’ll get 10 weeks on top of that. Forget billing 40 hours, now I probably don’t even work 40 hours.
As an M&A attorney I worked like 12 hour days the week before new years for year end closings. December was hell. I also barely saw my sons during the week and was in the office 5 days a week.
Being in house is so much better.
Have any of you transfered from personal injury? I would love to make the transition but no idea how
Depends on company and where you sit. A GC role can be stressful especially during tumultuous times but even then my hours are probably 50-55 average and I’ll have pockets of less than 40. My team is lean so it’s hard for me to take true PTO. WLB was better when I had non-GC role. I think VP role directly reporting to GC can be a sweet spot of great pay and decent WLB based upon companies I’ve worked for, but as others have said, it can really vary.
Pro
That VP role underneath the GC is my goal - I’ve seen the GC job, I don’t want it!
Chief
Yes! I’m SLAMMED right now and still working like 40-45 hours a week, no weekends or holidays. It’s great and worth every penny of pay cut.
Yes - truly better in terms of work-life balance. I left 6 mos. ago and have yet to work a weekend or past 7PM (usually wrap up at 5 PM). The paycut sucks but well worth it IMO. Obviosuly this will depend on your specific in-house role
Pro
As mentioned, in house teams vary - some can have the same insane demands as biglaw (startups, particularly tech are notoriously bad). That being said, I’m much happier in house than I ever was in my biglaw private practice, even with the pay cut. I feel like I’ve gotten my life back, can actually take real time off, and am overall a ton less stressed now that my “value” isn’t dictated by the billable hour.
I'll put it to you this way - I don't receive a single email over the weekend, on a holiday, or after hours.
And even if I did, and it was a true emergency and I didn’t want to handle it, I’d send it to outside counsel.
It depends markedly on company, industry, specific team within the company, legal team that's already there (if there is one). Some move in house and have it just as bad as biglaw, so you have to ask the right questions and do aa lot of diligence on the opportunities
How many people on your legal team, flexibility (if any) to use outside counsel, budget for training and reference resources, is legal expected to operate on shoestring budgets hamstringing hiring or backfilling; the resources, sophistication, expectations of clients your team will be working with
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My last in house job was a ton of work as were super lean but at most I worked 50-55hrs/week. New job is much calmer, I get paid well, have unlimited pto , two separate weeklong company closures and work less than 40hours per week.
Rising Star
Just to add and emphasize - my manager just told me I didn’t even have to work til 5 today since I’m off the rest of the week and our boss is off as well. So basically I am logging off at 3 and pouring a bourbon.
Yep.
I never feel bad about clocking out at 4 pm to go pick up my kids or just take care of a few errands. I also don’t stress if I don’t get going until 9 or 10am.
There’s also a ton of company activities, volunteer opportunities, pro-bono and department events that make the job even better. No one feels bad about just hanging out in the office chatting because they’re messing up their, or someone else’s billable time.
And with base, bonus, stock, RSUs the total comp is absolutely doable—assuming you didn’t get too deep into the golden handcuffs and start living far above your means and can now only be sustained by a big law partner level salary.
This is what I needed to hear! sounds amazing and very sustainable
I've been in-house for 14 months and am probably more stressed than I was at big law. Left as a 4th yr and am making $260k TC (all cash). I work an avg of 50 hrs a week, sometimes 60-65 and is pretty consistent. I was a transactional attorney so was used to ups and downs based on deal flow but at this job there have been no downs... so hrs wise, if I was billing I'd be consistently billing 200+ months. Needless to say, the paycut bothers me tremendously since it's half the pay but not half the workload. I do have more controlled working hours in the sense that no one is emailing me at 11pm and expecting to turn a doc by 8am the next day, can plan my weekends and have 25 days of PTO. However from Monday to Friday I have to work/respond until 8-9pm so I still do not have a life outside of work during the week. I also still need to respond to emails on vacation/holidays/weekends (although not at the big law level where your entire day could get ruined).
I took a GC-like role for a new multinational group of companies below a larger public company so I should've known what was coming but I was so desperate and burnt out in big law (almost got divorced over it) that I took the first lifeline I got to get out. It has also been a bit of bad luck since the larger public company was ranked as one of the best companies to work for in the world several yrs in a row but took a steep downturn when we got a new large minority shareholder that took over somehow, fired half the company, cut outside counsel fees, etc. All the firings and cost cutting measures have increased the workload and the admin burden (got rid of most secretaries, etc.).
All this to say that I hope it really depends on the company, because after this experience I am terrified to look for another in-house role and have the same happen and still barely being able to cover my expenses. It's not too late for me to go back to big law and I'm seriously considering it.
Chief
So sorry you’re having this experience. I’d definitely look for other positions because while this isn’t unheard of, it’s definitely atypical in my experience. You’ve got a great resume to shop around for something with either better hours, better pay, or frankly, both.
Yes, even with a lean team. I’ve had a few “busy” days and I worked 9 hours those days. Otherwise, 7 is the norm (less during the summer).
Generally yes. I work SO much less than at the firm, and the pay cut was worth it. Though, make sure the pay is something you can happily live with given the trade off and you're not going to grow to resent it on those particularly hectic weeks, or occasional weekends you do have to address a crisis. How few and far between those occasional weekends are will depend on company culture and the type of business. All that said, I work on average 8:30-4:30, and log on an additional hour if needed when home. Might work a handful of weekends a year, if that. No holidays. But, I will note, in house is not a cake walk. You work less hours, but the number of issues you touch and how much effort and attention required of you in those hours can be intense. You are always "on," until you're off. You have much more control over your daily schedule as an associate, but that's because you can work morning to night as needed, so lots of flexibility. In house, you're on the business's schedule.
People on the outside (i.e., family members friends who have no personal experience working in big law) will almost always think it’s insane because they’re just thinking about the financial hit. They just don’t truly understand what it’s like.
Lots of hours and lots of stress. Each company is different but in house is certainly not a bed of roses.
Pro
Yes
Yes.
Not every in-house job is built the same. I’ve been in-house for two years and the last year I’ve been working 60 hours per week pretty consistently. First year was more reasonable, but we lost an attorney and because we’re a cost center the executive team could care less about getting us a replacement. Overall, I’d say benefits like PTO, holidays, insurance, is equal to firm. Though difficult, I encourage you to use your interviews to get a sense of WLB, resources allocated to the department, etc. so you have a better sense if a good fit.
You could not pay me enough to go back.
Not better for me
In house legal departments are being cut everywhere. In my opinion, that will reverse starting in 2024 and beyond. The hours are certainly not always 8-5, particularly if you are with a global company. However, much, much better atmosphere than law firm life, and quite frankly, better experience given the exposure to business.