Related Posts
Bowl Leader
Accenture Strategy hiring for Technology consulting opportunities across domains such as Cloud, Data, Enterprise Architecture, ITOM, Enterprise Agility and Transformation Management. The opportunities spread across multiple levels and locations.
Diversity candidates are further encouraged. If interested, please mail me your profile at malhash08@gmail.com.
#cloud #data # enterprisearchitecture #ITOM #transformationmanagement #enterpriseagility #diversity #hiring
Bowl Leader
Bowl Leader
Hello all,
Would like to know specifically about Queer inclusion at SocGen Societe Generale. What is the attitude of mangers and HRs towards treating LGBTQ identifying candidates? Is company really inclusive or it’s just a lip service? Considering an offer with the company but being an out and proud Queer woman, super anxious and concerned.
More Posts
Any financial analysts here?
Does anyone else struggle with dopamine fasting?
Best startups in the utility space?
Got messaged by a C3 . ai recruiter. Read that wlb is bad and that the interview process is absurdly long, but the Glassdoor reviews are 4.2 and can't find actual hours worked posted by anyone. How's the culture really? I'd be aiming for DS consulting, something more functional but with DS/ML concepts as my differentiator.
C3.ai, Inc.
Anyone from GDS FAAS TEAM ???
Mentor
I am so tired. 😭🫠🫥
Additional Posts in LGBTQIA+ 🐠
Community Builder
Pro
Carl Nassib 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
where my gay ladies at 🙋♀️
Rising Star
Conversation Starter
Conversation Starter
New to Fishbowl?
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
No. You shouldn’t infer anything about people not listing their pronouns. While pronouns are important to people, my opinion is that for most it’s political. For that reason, I keep it out of my day to day. You can easily show support without broadcasting.
I am a proud and out gay man in all aspects of my life and don’t see this as homophobic or self hating. I see it more as identity politics which, in my opinion, should not be completely integrated into my gay identity.
I include pronouns on my business cards as a signal to others it’s OK to be themselves with me if they choose to, which is obviously easier for some vs others. For example, after handing one of my cards to a fellow motorcycling club member, who is cisgender, he asked why I included the pronouns, which he hadn’t seen before. This caught the attention of another member, who happened to be trans. She jumped right into the conversation, excitedly, to explain how it both encouraged conversations like the one we had started, raising awareness, but also that it made members like her know she had an another ally in the club, which she had not realized until then. Kind of like the small magnets with a green circle around a pink triangle some of us used to put up in our workspaces to let fellow employees, closeted or not, know that they were in a safe space.
Rising Star
Classic example of a woke exercise that was enacted without wide discussion of its potential implications and actively harmful to many trans people.
This should never be a mandatory thing and never even a widespread thing. It creates either pressure to come out or to lie (if one is not ready to come out).
I don’t put pronouns in my signature to stand in solidarity with trans members of the community who are not ready to come out.
Imagine if instead of pronouns, one had to list sexual orientation for all to see and look up. This forces people to either come out or to actively lie.
It flies against everything we know about how to let people come out in their own time. When they’re ready and feel safe.
That’s where the effort in workplaces should be: making everyone feel welcome and safe to be who they are. Instead of a virtue signaling exercise that becomes something that is checked off by the higher ups that they’re the “good guys” without doing any actual work.
PwC1: so if you don’t list pronouns because you are closeted, what pronouns do people assume for you? Wouldn’t being closeted lead you to list those?
Rising Star
As a trans person who is not yet ready to socially transition, I also don’t list my pronouns because I don’t want to list my birth pronouns, because that would be misleading, but am not ready to list my actual pronouns.
Generally, I read those who list their pronouns as allies, but I don’t necessarily infer that those who don’t list their pronouns to be hostile.
Fwiw.
I have never thought about the added pressure this causes those not ready to disclose. Thanks for sharing.
I am actually trans and don't do it because I feel like it almost tokenizes me as the diversity hire. I appreciate cis people normalizing it though.
Also: as a trans person, I want to say thank you to the cis people here who list their pronouns in solidarity with trans people, or to open a dialog, or to stick it to the 'don't say gay' crowd. Thank you!
I list them because I have short hair and don’t want people to think I’m a man since our photo is included in emails. Just a lesbian!
I'm a trans woman and I don't list my pronouns. I'm in consulting and don't come out to my clients about being trans. I don't want to call attention to gender, since at times I am a little insecure about my voice or aspects of my appearance.
So do you want your clients assuming you are of your gender assigned at birth? Or, at least, would rather they misgendered you than thought you weren’t passing?
Rising Star
I will never put my pronouns. I’m all for trans rights, but this is just another form of virtue signaling. Unless you look like you could be gender fluid or trans, I’m not going to go out of my way to look at your pronouns.
Why not? I’m not visibly gender-fluid or trans, but I prefer they/them/theirs pronouns.
At my company there hasn’t been any mass training or education on listing pronouns in emails so I just assume a lot of people don’t know or don’t understand the importance. I’ve also seen people who I know are in the LGBTQ community not use any pronouns in emails. There’s plenty of reasons to use them or not to use them. I put mine in my email signature and don’t have any strong opinions on anyone who doesn’t use them yet. Unless I see someone say or do something homophobic or transphobic or hear of it from a trusted source, I’m not going to assume that they are
Rising Star
I list them. I don't think people conclude much from it, but I'm also in the minority of my firm for doing it. Although juniors and summers are more actively doing it.
I actually like having them when I'm dealing with opposing counsel in Louisiana (I'm in California). It's pretty apparent that they are bigots (it's a pro bono Section 1983 case), so I'm hopeful that this gay ass California attorney irritates them whenever they read my emails.
Out gay man here. I don’t list my pronouns in emails for two reasons:
1. I don’t like having a laundry list of items in my email signature (and I judge people who include their office address!); plus the information is readily available in my company profile page for anyone who needs any detail on me
2. In my view, your gender/ pronouns should not have an impact at work; so I don’t need to know them if we are collaborating only over email. I work in a very international company, so I never assume genders based on names (you never know… we have two “Andrea” in the office - a man and a woman) and I write my emails all as gender neutral (use names). If I get to know you in person/ over Zoom, I try get to know you on a personal level, including learning your pronouns.
I recognize that in my job I do not need to know someone’s pronouns unless I have met you over Zoom or in person and that this might not be the case for everyone
I’ve already replied on the pronoun issue on this bowl, but in relation to having the address and other company details, if you work in an international company then you should know that most counties make it a legal obligation to share these details on email signatures :)
I didn’t list mine but finally added them on 6/1. I felt like others would think it was cheesy for a femme presenting cis-woman to have them in there, however, I finally decided I wanted to include them as a quiet way of showing I’m a “safe” person for others in the community to reach out to. We only have about 5 people who list their pronouns in my practice and it just felt like the right thing to do.
I’m going to try not to judge others without them because, frankly, I used to be one of them.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I put mine on finally this spring — because my state is passing a “don’t say gay bill,” and I know the impact it’s having on the trans community. It’s interesting to know though from these responses that the pronouns can make non out trans colleagues feel pressured. I do have some colleagues who list pronouns as “they-them” — and I suppose I think I don’t want them to have to “stand alone” in this increasingly hostile country that we live in. My pronouns have also elicited questions from others who don’t know/understand why I have them in my email signature, and that gets a conversation started, awareness. I now have a better understanding too of why some do not list them, and I will not make assumptions either way now.
Yikes. Pronouns are neither virtue signaling nor political. Y’all realize EVERYone uses pronouns, right? It facilitates communication effectively. The fact that it also allows for a way for those who are not assumed to be cis, or for those who have gender neutral names or names in a different language, to volunteer this information readily is icing on the cake. It’s so easy to do. The fact that anyone has taken the time to consider their objection so strongly and justify it says way more about y’all than it does about pronouns.
Similar environment, probably closer to 40%. I don’t infer anything. I had one coworker who transferred to an office in a much less LGBT-friendly country and they removed the pronouns from their signature when they did (and are cis-hetero, so not a personal risk thing). I think there are a lot reasons people don’t do this - not understanding the value, concerns about how they’ll be perceived by clients or upper management who don’t include pronouns, cultural differences, and I’m sure some transphobic sentiments, too.
I’m as queer as they come and it took me a while to change mine because a trans friend had told me they personally found it objectionable (like it added pressure for trans folks who weren’t ready to disclose pronouns, and felt like virtue signaling) and I wanted to hear more perspectives before adding mine. I was ultimately convinced. But then, I tend to overthink.
Really interesting perspective from the trans friend — never thought of that. Definitely more likely to be “easier” for cisgender to list pronouns.
I would not say it’s homophobic or transphobia or any sort of phobic, to not have your pronouns.
Reading some of the comments here has me a bit in shock. I am a gay CIS male and I show my pronouns, not because I think people will get confused about my pronouns, but because I want to show people who are uncertain about theirs, or who are Gender neutral, or trans, that I support them and that they can feel safe around me.
It’s not about me…it’s about them!
I don't assume any individual is phobic if they don't have their pronouns listed, but if I'm in a group call and no one has their pronouns listed, I feel less safe to be myself.
I decided to be out at work partly to help others see it could be done safely and hopefully to know they had someone to reach out to. Signaling can be very helpful to marginalized people.
I have listed my pronouns, taken them off, put different ones on, rinse and repeat. My pronouns are still TBD and I’d like an option for a drop down menu for each day, because I never know what feels right until that day. I’m not fully divested from my gender assigned at birth yet it doesn’t fully encompass who I am. It’s not that I’m not ready to disclose, it’s just that I don’t want to change my email signature daily. My name is gender neutral so that helps too.
When I speak to groups, however, I always give my pronouns (of the day) because I want to make others feel more included as well.
Rising Star
I hope so, and if so, I find it actually quite amusing.
I also know people who have an ambiguous or foreign (lol sorry if that’s not pc couldn’t think of better term it’s early) name who put them in there for that reason.
It’s super helpful for gender neutral names. Especially if it’s someone you should really reply back as Mr/Ms etc., and the information isn’t readily avail online.
Conversation Starter
I never put my gender pronouns and I don’t think it is necessary. It might be important for some people (esp trans people) so it is not my responsibility to tell everyone should or should not use the gender pronouns. As long as you live in the environment without disrespecting to other people, being kind, trying to treat everyone as human beings and finding some positive things in a person
I don't. But i support lgbtqia+ rights 200%. Just going back from the pride march in fact.
Like others have said, i don't think you should think not putting pronouns is trans or homophobic. Not at all