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Hi Fishes,
This is on behalf of a friend .Can someone please put on some light on the below query ?
Company : Morgan Stanley
Designation : Associate - Global
Role : Compliance Technology Strategy
Division : Legal and Compliance
How is this position for a BE+ MBA , total 3+ years of IT experience in top MNC.What would be the expected CTC and next hierarchy designation ( after a promotion ) ? Morgan Stanley
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Yes, you’re at capacity. I start saying I’m at capacity when I’m looking at 45-50 hours/week on a consistent basis.
Thank you for the sanity check. My firm grinds people into the ground and makes it seem normal, so it’s helpful to know that I’m not some kind of failure for not wanting to keep up with it.
People that pretend this isn’t over capacity are either unethically billing, lying, or are on the highway to burnout. I start dying at 65 hours. Anything above 55 is not sustainable long term for me. I turn down new work at 45ish. As a mid, I also wouldn’t *want* someone joining my matter who was already billing this and would want them to turn it down. They don’t have time and won’t be helpful
Yes, I am on the highway to burnout, and I am dying.
At 40, I say no and don't ask for anything. Just keep saying no.
Chief
But then partners say they will stop asking and get other associates and all your work will dry up 😱 😱 😱 such lies.
You are well past capacity and imo that’s not a sustainable pace. Especially if you feel like you’re still behind after billing that much they are already risking compromising quality (not on you obviously). They need to hire or staff more ppl and that isn’t your problem.
Anything more than 160 a month is over capacity tbh. I try not to think of it in terms of days/weeks because we do need to work harder on some days, but you should be making up for it elsewhere.
Pro
Holy Toledo, Batman - you are beyond at capacity. Tell them to F off (obviously not using those words;-), and look to lateral if they push back. I’m pretty sure slavery is no longer permitted in the U.S. - you know - that whole 13th amendment thing, right? Good luck. What they’re expecting from you is beyond unreasonable.
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I would say 50+ a week is when I say no. If I know I’m in for multiple 200-250 months, I get pissed off. When I was single/didn’t have kids, my answer would probably be different. But I’m not saying you should work yourself to death, no matter what your home life/situation is like.
Capacity can be a moving target. Query whether you’re recording your hours similarly to your peers. I used to constantly get screwed on new work and felt like my peers were practically goofing off while I was barely sleeping - found out some bill every minute from the moment they step into the office to the moment they go home (plus some arbitrary 0.2 per email) or they bill thinking about a matter while exercising…I’m still a perpetual under biller, but have a better sense of when I can actually say no. If the whole firm is drowning, we’re all supposed to drown together. If they’re trying to drown me because they like me more than other people or other people fluff their hours, they can find someone else.
Rising Star
You’re at capacity. 50 a week about does it for me. No more than that.
I think it depends on your billable hour requirement/pay. For example, I used to work at a firm with a lower billable hour requirement and lower pay, so we considered ourselves “at capacity” at like 40 hours a week, because that was the capacity we were being paid for/expected to have.
It depends on the current market condition. If you are asked to do work when billing 55 and everyone else is 75, it would come across bad. If you are at 55 and everyone else is 40 it makes sense to push back.
25 or so
I’m on the same boat and just recently started to refuse work and shocker - despite the fact I was 600 hours over my target, I still got pushback…
I think the key is sticking to your original position that you’re at capacity even when they pushback. I usually add that I cannot take on more work without compromising my existing deadlines and/or quality of my work and that does the trick.
At the end of the day, the partners have incentive to keep pushing you to work more since they profit off your billables, all while paying you the same salary.
Work smart not hard - you’re the only person who will speak out for yourself and protect your boundaries.
Rising Star
Find a new firm.