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Bowl Leader
Enthusiast
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Pause. Breathe. Proceed.
⏸ 🌬 ▶️
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Acceptance is the answer.
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Do not get involved. People are on their on journey and they need to hit bottom themselves otherwise you are preventing them from learning a lesson.
Bowl Leader
When I was a “practicing alcoholic”, I lived in a hellish world of denial, despair and……..survival.
I would not insert myself into this issue directly, since there is a huge amount of unpredictability, and though your intent is to help someone, you may end up negatively impacting your career if this Director decides to go into full self-preservation mode.
Does PwC have an Ombudsman program? I’m sure you have an EAP, which is almost certainly what the Director could benefit from, but if they don’t want help there’s nothing that can be done. Sometimes us alcoholics need to hit bottom to get better, but none of us can play God and decide what someone needs and when they need it. Reaching out to an Ombudsperson can give you someone to talk to to discuss options for your own next steps.
Your best bet is to be ready to help, but only if they ask for it.
Prayers for you and the Director.
Thank you ♥️. I do see that she could into “full self preservation mode”.
And I know from my addiction and mental health challenges that I was in complete denial before I hit “rock bottom” and thankfully shook myself awake. Thank you for your guidance here and kindly reminding me.
I’ll look into what programs we have.
Enthusiast
Tricky indeed. There is no easy way, it’s going to be a Frank, intervention-type talk no matter what, but you can come at it sincerely like “I’ve lost someone recently to addiction and I wanted to talk to you about it because I care…” Could go sideways fast.
As someone recently told me in a meeting:
“When you were a drinker, did you ever trust a non drinker?” No, because it’s confronting. Eager to hear other comments here.
Totally agree. And I do fear that she’ll have a negative response. Even when I confronted my sister a decade ago she instantly turned aggressive and cut me and our mom out of her life. I know it was partially out of embarrassment (she was caught stealing from our mom), but how she responded has caused me to question how to handle any other situation. 😔
Enthusiast
I’ve been reflecting on this post and this meeting I just went to outlined the guidance from the big book:
P89
When you discover a prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous, find out all you can about him. If he does not want to stop drinking, don’t waste time trying to persuade him. You may spoil a later opportunity. This advice is given for his family also. They should be patient, realizing they are dealing with a sick person.
If there is any indication that he wants to stop, have a good talk with the person most interested in him— usually his wife. Get an idea of his behavior, his problems, his background, the seriousness of his condition, and his religious leanings. You need this information to put yourself in his place, to see how you would like him to approach you if the tables were turned.
P91
See your man alone, if possible. At first engage in general conversation. After a while, turn the talk to some phase of drinking. Tell him enough about your drinking habits, symptoms, and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. You will thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. If he is not communicative, give him a sketch of your drinking career up to the time you quit. But say nothing, for the moment, of how that was accomplished. If he is in a serious mood dwell on the troubles liquor has caused you, being careful not to moralize or lecture. If his mood is light, tell him humorous stories of your escapades. Get him to tell some of his.
When he sees you know all about the drinking game, commence to describe yourself as an alcoholic.
P92
Tell him how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick. Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism. If he is alcoholic, he will understand you at once. He will match your mental inconsistencies with some of his own.
P94
Outline the program of action, explaining how you made a self-appraisal, how you straightened out your past and why you are now endeavoring to be helpful to him. It is important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a vital part in your own recovery. Actually, he may be helping you more than you are helping him. Make it plain he is under no obligation to you, that you hope only that he will try to help other alcoholics when he escapes his own difficulties. Suggest how important it is that he place the welfare of other people ahead of his own. Make it clear that he is not under pressure, that he needn’t see you again if he doesn’t want to. You should not be offended if he wants to call it off, for he has helped you more than you have helped him. If your talk has been sane, quiet and full of human understanding, you have perhaps made a friend. Maybe you have disturbed him about the question of alcoholism. This is all to the good. The more hopeless he feels, the better. He will be more likely to follow your suggestions.
P96
Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy.
P100
Both you and the new man must walk day by day in the path of spiritual progress. If you persist, remarkable things will happen. When we look back, we realize that the things which came to us when we put ourselves in God’s hands were better than anything we could have planned. Follow the dictates of a Higher Power and you will presently live in a new and wonderful world, no matter what your present circumstances!
P102
Your job now is to be at the place where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful.
P103
After all, our problems were of our own making. Bottles were only a symbol. Besides, we have stopped fighting anybody or anything. We have to!
Before you talk to someone:
“God, give me the courage, guidance, wisdom and words to use.”
Nope. Mind your business.
Are you an addict as well? Either way I would not confront them but if you are, let it slip that you are in recovery and maybe that person will reach out if or when they are ready.
Bowl Leader
I tend to just trust my Higher Power in these situations (this method will resonate with those in 12-step recovery; and I’ll sound like a kook for those who aren’t, haha).
If it feels like I’m forcing something or trying to get a certain outcome, it’s because I am, and that means my ego has crept in. If I just “trust the process”, as they say, and become humbly willing to be of service, the opportunity will present itself at the exact right moment, if it’s meant to happen at all.
Could this urge to help be rooted in some codependency issues? It's why I stuck around at horrible jobs with horrible leaders: I thought I could fix them. But eventually you have to tell yourself: not my circus, not my clowns.
You didn't cause this dynamic in their life, it is not your responsibility to fix it. Codependency can be manipulated into looking like basic human kindness, but please know that it can give dangerous people an unnecessary amount of power over your emotions and actions.
This. ❤️
Yeah, if you are kind of close maybe ask them to coffee. If you’re not in the same city do it over zoom. Just ask how they are and say you just want to catch up…might give more insight
This is a super tough situation and I agree with the comments that it could take many intended turns. I would advise you to handle this like you would any complicated but highly personal situation, and that is to reach out to your HR hotline or equivalent. You can be extremely transparent about what you know and don’t know, explain that you are simply concerned, and then let them handle it. They are professionally trained to deal with these types of situations.
RC1 — This is such a great point. I’ve definitely used to struggle with this in the past.
I’m only a couple weeks into the team and have no desire to (and will not) stick around. I have no idea how these others have for 3-4 years. It’s almost been a surreal experience where you’re looking around being like, “is anyone else seeing this?? Anyone?”.
Anyway, I’m seeking advice on what to do or say. Ignoring it feels weird, but wasn’t sure how others have handled. I really appreciate all of the advice here.
Have you talked with HR? Not the ethics hotline, but the actual HR rep?
Regarding the Director, I wouldn’t accuse him/her of alcohol abuse, but you can simply ask, “how are you doing?” His/her response will tell you a lot about their receptivity to a deeper discussion.
I have heard (though I don’t know if it’s legit) that certain medications can give both the smell and effects of intoxication, so the Director might have a different set of challenges. Either way, I’d consult HR and let them do their job because although you mean well, just having good intentions doesn’t guarantee you’ll actually be able to help.
A