{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "What's everyone's take on diversity and also inclusiveness at your offices? I feel like we hire divers professionals but don't do a whole lot to retain them. What causes the low retention rate in blac", "post_id": "5952cf93a16b2a001053c3a2", "reply_count": 85, "vote_count": 4, "bowl_id": "564a5cdb94887803001dd07c", "bowl_name": "Accounting" }

What's everyone's take on diversity and also inclusiveness at your offices? I feel like we hire divers professionals but don't do a whole lot to retain them. What causes the low retention rate in blac

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@manager 1 I understand but that is EY4s point, it doesn't have to be said. Take the conversation out of big 4 and apply it to public school education as I know teachers who have said "well they aren't going to be engineers" so the follow through on that individual and the will to be persistent, encourage etc is already gone. That unconscious perception and bias is a perpetual cycle that follows from school to the work place. And here in the workplace the people In charge are that of an older generation not to say the younger generation is any better. Again this is hard to talk about because one side feels neglected the other is offended in that the remarks are generalized against another race etc or because it's just not their experience but black people know...we know... I think it's hard to accept but OP I personally emphasize not looking at other people/races to change the situation. The change starts with you, but I understand the need to want to talk about it. And don't ever feel like b/c bias exists that you can't make it, if you want to, you can make it. And don't ever let anyone make you feel like you don't deserve it when you do!

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Diversity to me is neither good nor bad, neither something to promote nor resist. I believe in merit. Only the strong shall survive. In fact I feel like too much promotion of it for it's own sake is silly, is virtue signalling or being a social justice warrior (but the judgement leveled at me when I am so unprudent as to even hint at such notions towards peers or people I like is no laughing matter). But let's say someone gets in who is slightly less qualified because of diversity. Well you're not going to keep promoting them all the way up the chain. This person eventually will not be retained. Eventually you have to pay the Piper, after so much damage has been done to many parties. Another thing, about belief systems. It could be true that all human races are identical in all ways mentally and emotionally and tempermentally and human biodiversity is only skin deep. I'm open to that theory too but if that's the only view you allow, then if you see different success outcomes, you're naturally going to believe it is due to some kind of discrimination or conspiracy as opposed to differences in capacity, and you're going to want to rectify it politically, with strong conviction in tow and heaping doses of self righteousness. But I'm not a fascist or nazi, just a libertarian/ free thinker and free speech advocate, the anti millennial millennial. But promoting diversity publicly is expedient and will make you popular, especially with young women, word to the wise. Just ask Trudeau, Beatty and Hefner.

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@EY2 your racial bias is showing. To say black people are less likely to be professionals due to "could be culture" is racist.

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People naturally have ingrained unconscious bias and support those that represents themselves their daughter or their son while ey is making leadership aware aware of the issue the fact is black employees get less bd opportunities and less access to information on the movement of the firm so they can learn the business additionally most of the time when a black makes a mistake there is no second chance to rectify and unconscious bias make it's easier to right off the employee

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Retention rate is low in general for everyone in public. It's a big pile of 💩💩

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Diversity hires have it rough - as a double minority, there were a lot of things I had to figure out starting in college to navigate what they call "professionalism" - if you are able to, you can really propel yourself WAY ahead of your peers. That being said - not to be that person - Racism is still very real.

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Yea but my experience that I see is it is far lower for diverse professionals

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I've worked with many black coworkers. Many of whom have been top rated and involved in BD. Many SM who are partner track. Have never seen someone given less opportunities because of their skin color in my professional career.

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EY 4 That is so true. I feel like it is easier to write off blacks or some of the Unrepresented minorities than it is for their white counterparts. Also public accounting is a very fast pace environment and if you fall behind, it is so hard to catch up. Since it is a normal tendency for humans to feel more comfortable with people that look like them and have thesame backgrounds as them, the majority race unconsciously does so! For example a new white staff may be more likely to ask their senior a "dumb" question than a black staff. Likewise they are more likely to ask for great documentation examples from peers ( there are plenty that look like them) as compared to the black (lonely) staff.. this then translates to the black staff seeming Like they take longer to grasp material and are also less efficient compared to the white staff. We all need to be aware of these challenges and do what it takes to go above and beyond to ensure that the take off stage of diverse professionals is smoother. That is where it begins and once you start off at a wrong footing it is hard to ever recover!

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^Speak from direct experience. My best friend works as a school teacher in an under privileged neighborhood. The lack of parents involvement is astounding.

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If you go into these poor communities I think you'd find that there is often a lack of involvement amongst the parents.

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EY4, if your work product is reflected in any way by your grammar, it is a miracle you have a job

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Maybe if more blacks studied accounting in college, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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And OP don't be so concerned. I agree with RSM 1. I don't think there is anything done specifically to make the retention rate lower but I feel like those numbers could be skewed given that there aren't as many minorities particularly blacks to begin with. It could be culture, less willingness to kiss ass....idk but I feel like in any professional job you're going to see less black people. It is what it is...hang in there and help maintain the environment you want by getting involved in BPN and the like. And certainty don't look to your left and your right and make decisions because who is there and who isn't.

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RSM2, why is it so popular to ask for studies nowadays? Is this a way to look smart? Fishbowl is not an academic debate, it's a place where people share experiences, ideas, and opinions. You can write a study about amount of topics here about diversity, but please do not be this kind of fact-fascist. In places like fishbowl it is ok to be subjective.

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I think there are probably a variety of factors but a strong one is always a lack of diversity in leadership. As we get better diversity in firm leadership (which EY has been very vocal is a priority), I believe we will have better retention rates with diverse professionals as they will see proper representation.

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^I feel like if there were truth to any of that then there would be a lawsuit. If blacks are truly being systematically treated differently within EY someone would have sued. I think all of it is perception. I don't think it's fair to say that blacks are given only one chance and whites are given multiple chances. There are too many other factors besides race that go into ratings and the like. Employees differ in their skill sets, proficiencies, etc... in order to definitively state that blacks are given less chances than whites you'd need to have a sample of employees with all else equal (same ratings, same markets, same class, etc..) and show that the blacks are treated differently.

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^I also think part of the change starts at home. The black community as a whole, has much less parental support than the white community. A generalization I know, but something that often gets overlooked. Obviously this is due to many complex factors, many of which were caused by systematic racism. It's definitely an extremely complex subject. I do know that the rates of absentee fathers in the black community greatly exceeds that in other communities. Obviously the systematic racism encountered over generations exacerbates this, but I feel it's something that's quite overlooked and often not spoken about. Part of the solution is figuring out how we can have young children to have good role models growing up. Every child deserves to have a parent or role model actively involved in their life and supporting them. Not really sure how you make this happen, but I feel that it's part of the equation that's often overlooked.

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@EY4 I also don't see you posting any facts or links to studies in here. You can't just say that someone is trolling or trying to posit a false narrative of inferiority because you disagree with their perspective.

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Also it said "for those who live with their children" black fathers are more engaged. That's a huge caveat, when we are talking specifically about black fathers being missing from their children's lives!

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I don't think there's any disagreement that black fathers who are around are actively engaged in their children's lives. I think the issue is the large number of fathers who are not around. How many kids in the inner city grow up without a father figure? What are the statistics on that?

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It is interesting the turn this conversation has taken lol! So I've been in big four for so long that I'm now involved in those round table conversations and I know that the big driver for better ratings (4s or 5s ) are people who have big differentiating things such working on a key client or on an IPO or a new proposal. Guess what, the folks at the top would be the ones that pick people to work with them on these opportunities and I think there is that inherent human bias to pick those that look like them because they naturally relate better with. Not sure what everyone else thinks!

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