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Hey guys. I have been applying to Amex for the past 1 year. Tried applying on the portal, through referrals and even hr consultants reached me regarding the roles since I have a relevant profile. But not once have I been shortlisted or called for an interview. What could be the problem?
PS: I have gotten calls from every other company for the same profile but not amex. Can't be a problem with the profile. Seems something dicey which I'm not aware of.American Express
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I went the other direction and one thing that people that started and have only worked at top firms often don’t appreciate is how stressful it can be not knowing where you’re going to find enough work to get your target hours. Obviously being busy all the time is exhausting and stressful, but I found it far easier mentally than not having enough to do.
I agree based on my experience. A big upside is that I work fewer hours after I lateraled compared to my first firm, but the downside is that I am always worried about making hours.
It affects vacation too. I still take vacation, but because those are days or weeks that I am not adding to my hours, I am always worried if I can “afford” it, i.e. will I accidentally miss target by a few hours and regret down the line? Definitely didn’t have this anxiety at my first firm and didn’t have to think about when to take vacations (i.e. is it better to do earlier in the year so you have runway to make up or later in the year once you feel better about hours) or whether to even take vacation at all if worried about staying on track for hours.
I made the move and liked it. I wouldn't have been able to survive this many years at my NYC white show firm, but the WLB is much better at a CA tech firm so I have been able to hang out a bit longer. Some big things I miss are the extravagant events, 24/7 firm infrastructure, and what were pretty much exclusively fee insensitive clients (especially as I have gotten more senior and have had to manage budget issues more).
Enthusiast
This resonates.
Just came here to say - scratch Goodwin. They’re literal trash 🤮
Mentor
Yes, I was Lathamed on Feb 29, 2008, along with hundreds of other staff. We got six months severance, and I was skiing, on a powder day, in Vail, so it wasn't awful.
And a partner referred me to a client for a LT temp gig, so I only lost a week of income, net.
Subject Expert
This seems like an insane move to me with how terrible those firms have been lately. But what do I know.
I don't think switching for industry specific reasons is inherently a bad thing.
Location is also a big factor you need to consider. As someone lateraled from an AM 10 to a top ECVC firm in East Coast, biggest issue to me is there’s no good mentorship at my current firm. Partners and 80% associates in my team all came from white shoe firms but now doing ECVC work. I constantly hear people from other teams complain about our team doing work wrong but partners don’t teach/guide associates. Associates in this team just on a wrong path go further and further.
Do you work at Goodwin lolz
I’ve worked at 2 of the big west coast ECVC firms and am currently a partner at 1. This is an extremely common move. The majority of laterals to these firms are from white shoe NY firms. Some work out, some don’t. I’ve seen laterals from Cravath-level firms make partner and I’ve seen them RIFd or even fired (for performance) within a year or 2 of hire.
Contrary to some of the above posts, I think right now is a good time to join. Deal flow picking up and, at least at our firm, we may have cut too deep with layoffs so need help now.
Mentor
I joined Gunderson in 21.
I got a guaranteed year end bonus.
It eas above market.
Got laid off ~18 mos later w severance.
Id do it again.
I did that… did V5, then V30, and then went back to a V5. I felt like my job was always on the line at the V30, because hours were hard to find and layoffs / threats of layoffs / delayed start dates for juniors. Even when you did get work, partners often asked us not to bill more than X hours since clients were super fee sensitive. I always billed the time it took but found it unnecessarily stressful. I also found the V30 firm super cheap; even senior associates had to sit in cubicles. Dinner budget was around $30-35, which is about half of the budget I had at both V5 firms.
Now that I’m back at a V5, though, I realize just how much I took the WLB for granted at my V30. People act like weekends and holidays don’t exist. I don’t mind working late or on weekends if necessary, but fake deadlines are rampant and the expectation to make this job your entire life have made this feel more unsustainable.
A14 what’s your dinner budget
Enthusiast
Don’t do it.
The upside with those firms is generally the client-contact and the opportunity to make real money—as in, retire at 40 money—by taking a role with a startup, getting lots of early equity, and then cashing out when exit conditions are favorable.
Given how the markets that those firms traditionally serve contracted during the Biden administration and are likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future, an ideal placement at a successful startup is a lot less likely than it was from 2012-2021 (when WSGR and Cooley were the most desirable firms).
Way Less than 1/1000. Lawyers get very little equity, even gc. Big tech is a better bet than going to a startup although not a get rich quick scheme.
Honestly most people I know the move (and there were tons between 2018-2022) didn’t have any regrets. Would make sure you’re looking at the top firms in the space though like the ones you name + Gunderson, Latham, Orrick, etc.) Even the ones that were impacted/RIFed due to tech/VC slowdowns in 2022 generally landed on their feet in-house at startups, VCs or public tech cos, who tend to hire primarily out of these firms when they can.
Biggest downsides in my experience have been that (1) clients can be unsophisticated - a lot of hand holding which can be tough at times when your point of contact are often founders who are constantly in the “move fast and break things” type mentality, even with respect to legal work, and (2) you might find yourself billing to a dozen+ clients in a given day (a lot of .2s and .3s) which creates a real administrative burden to track your time relative to M&A where you might be billing to 1 or 2 clients for the entire day. Clients are also very cost sensitive at the early stages so you might feel more pressure than you would in other practices to sacrifice work quality for efficiency
This is all spot on
Don’t
I’m at Latham doing ECVC M&A, I’m very happy here and wouldn’t want to move to another firm to do this.
Curious how it’s going. I’m considering lateraling to Lathams funds group or ECVC group
I did - best decision ever. Feel free to PM me.
Literally best decision I ever made lol v5 white shoe to a v30 tech firm
A4, how’s Cooley’s training system?
I did the move and survived when mass layoffs were happening. If you’re a top performer you’ll always be safe. People who make this move tend to fail bc they (1) treat the move as a lifestyle move and don’t work as hard as they should or (2) can’t break their old habits and don’t adjust to what is a very different style of practice and client base. If you lateral you are already behind and too expensive for what you know. If you don’t get up the learning curve very fast and get very efficient, you’ll be way too expensive and partners won’t use you. Then you’re toast.
If those are the types of clients you want to work with and the type of work you want to do, those firms make sense. DM me if you want to discuss (I'm at one of them).
It’s a good move if you’re ultimately looking for a good exit in house.