How do you deal with stub years who are exceptionally bad? I’m not talking about general cluelessness which is completely expected and understandable, but turning in work product riddled with incomprehensible, grammatically incorrect sentences that would fail middle school English. This is honestly the worst I’ve ever seen. Would you just avoid in the future or raise this with a partner? I don’t even know how to talk to this person about this…

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Don't raise this to the partner, pull them aside and coach them. Don't give up try your best to help them. Don't understand this kind of mentality in BL where you just write people off.

likesmart

Exactly

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Is English their second language? I would ask them if they need help/suggest resources that will help

likehelpful

It’s not, and yes good point there are firm resources that I can point them to in an artful way

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Lol at the responses in here. Lawyers are truly awful managers and aren't afraid to admit it.

likefunny

Wish we were trained to do this better

Staff multiple people between me and them. There. I solved the problem for you. 😂😂😂

But, actually trying to be helpful here? Patience. Teaching takes a ton of patience. Seriously. You have no idea how exhausting it is to feel like you exist in a perpetual state of teaching people while also having a really demanding job. Partners have been doing this shit for a decade minimum and in most cases…decades. Seriously. This is, however, in a fundamental way…a critical part of the job and can be one of the most rewarding aspects of the job.

But stuff like attention to detail - in particular at the levels expected of elite lawyers - well, these traits are not common among people that do not have debilitating levels of OCD. A lot of lawyers have to learn these traits and mental discipline. And it can take a long time. Some of the people with the highest mental processing power also have “absolutely mental” attention to detail lapses. If it doesn’t get addressed, it really can be career limiting. A lot of people figure it out when they realize this isn’t ticky-tack feedback — it’s a critical area of “must grow” for them as a professional. That’s true in a lot of high powered fields really. — eg how tolerant do you think private equity is of a sloppy excel / deal model? I think the answer is “Not.” And “far less tolerant than a lawfirm.”

likeupliftingsmart

In my previous work environment, it would be completely normal to just tell someone they need to work on their verbal skills and then suggest trainings, etc. I really don’t get why it seems like everyone in law land tip toes around everything.

likesmart

Normal feedback is not harassment and also very few firms have upward reviews - regardless, people just need to learn how to give normal feedback without being an asshole.

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Depending on how senior you are to them, coaching can backfire. Don’t bother training them unless you are a good few years ahead - I’ve had a junior who reported me to HR when I pulled them aside for training their email writing skills. They reported me for discrimination for telling them to improve their English (we are literally the same race and same nationality so wtf lol)

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That is ridiculous but not surprising.

Move on. That’s not a skill deficit you can repair.

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A3 - I’m just teasing you. You’re right.

I wouldn’t keep working with them. I know that it’s nice to coach and develop people, but unfortunately it’s too big of a gulf when someone’s basic communication skills just aren’t there (same for basic resourcefulness/thoughtfulness).

I can teach people to research better, structure more thoughtful arguments, be more methodical in the way the find and analyze documents, ask better questions at a deposition, etc. But I can’t teach basic grammar, how to Google/solve basic problems, or how to pay attention in general.

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It’s exhausting. I just had to have a sit down talk with one of mine about the importance of attention to detail and reading all the way to the end of my emails…

likefunny

Do you and said junior have the same definition of “draft”? Sometimes that can trip them up.

helpful

new fear unlocked. i’ve never even thought of this (just getting to the stage where i get to delegate)

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I wouldn't deal with. I would try to get someone else staffed behind the scenes. If that doesn't work, I would just do what it takes to get through it on that transaction/matter and then never work with them again. Every biglaw hire should come into the job with a basic set of skills (which includes good grammar). If they don't have those skills, I'm not interested in working with them. I'm not going to spend my time teaching them skills they should have learned in grade school. I refuse.

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