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Why stop here then? Let’s get rid of all government health and food assistance for kids, adults and seniors because it’s all just population control, right? I mean it’s survival of the fittest and if you’re born poor well you have bootstraps to pull yourself up from right? And if you die, that’s okay because you were weak and we are better off without you because most important in this world is being able to earn and keep as much money as possible.
I responded to the example in the post directly before mine and made no assumptions. Agree we should do what we can to mitigate risk but can't bury our face in the sand and pretend we don't accept some risk in our daily lives.
Although it’s absolutely awful to have to think about, I find this to be an interesting moral question. Even Fauci doesn’t seem confident that we’ll have a vaccine any time soon. And as terrible as it is to think about - that when lockdown policies are eventually relaxed, it will almost certainly lead to deaths - the simple truth is that ultimately, a lot of us are just going to have to get COVID and fight it off in order to build immunity.
To be very clear (especially since I live in NYC), I absolutely am not condoning that anything is reopened before health experts say it’s safe. Even then, the elderly and sick should stay quarantined longer. In short, the people protesting right now are idiots.
That said, I think one thing a lot of people are losing sight of is that quarantine was never meant to prevent us all from ever getting the virus - it was only meant to flatten the curve. Meaning, it’s likely almost as many of us catch the virus anyway, as would have without quarantine. The goal was to flatten the curve and get us to a point where hospitals can handle the number of people coming in sick - in the end, many of us will still end up at the hospital later, but hopefully at a rate where hospitals can take care of us appropriately and minimize deaths. The unfortunate truth is that many of those at high risk may end up dying regardless of whether they end up in the hospital now or later, but hopefully by flattening the curve, we minimize those deaths.
The problem in my opinion is that the Trump administration’s horrific handling of the situation has made this issue political. On the one hand, many people seem to think we should just open everything up now, which would be catastrophic. On the other hand, I’m getting the sense that a lot of politicians will want to wait as long as possible to relax quarantine restrictions - no one wants to risk being blamed for deaths after relaxing those rules, even though it’s inevitable there will be more deaths. The correct solution is likely somewhere in between. Clearly, we aren’t yet ready to reopen the economy, and anyone who thinks we are hasn’t been paying attention. Experts even stated this would happen - that progress with containing the virus would, ironically, be viewed as validation for the opinion a lockdown wasn’t needed. At the same time, those who expect quarantine to wipe out the virus are sadly mistaken... the virus will linger and be a threat until we have a vaccine, which could be years away, so we may have to accept that so long as we reach a point where hospitals can handle the volume of patients, coronavirus will be a threat we have to live with.
Rising Star
I hope you’re not vice president of anything important.
Rising Star
Yes, I agree completely that light sarcasm is the bane of the free exchange of ideas.
Oh shoot, I did it again.
I’ve had the same thought but I haven’t ever said it out loud because it’s a bit heartless ...
so... it's heartless by definition?
Chief
“Not to be a dick, but what if we simply allow a virus that is disproportionately affecting lower income groups who won’t have the resources I have to stay home as much as possible even when restrictions are lifted to run rampant? Food for thought.”
Not to be a dick. I have parents that are immune compromised- but can we as a society live like this or does the world accept the mortality rates and move forward with basic instincts of survival of the fittest?
Anyone else ever notice that people always say “not to be a dick/racist/misogynist, but” right before they insert the most dickish/racist/misogynistic thing you’ve ever heard?
Chief
Is there a moment when the world realizes it has the resources necessary for most people in developed countries to shelter in place for quite a while as we figure out a strategy to protect our populace and we stop having garbage takes like this one?
Chief
I’m not the one throwing a tantrum and insulting people. But sure, I’m a toddler.
OP's comment is sensible, rational and even virtuous. How long can we impede life in an attempt to impede death? A lot of weak people on here.
Ok. Let’s go through that list. War — huh? Famine — farmers are still essential. More disease — people are staying indoors and being more hygienic than ever; I’d think this we’re more likely to experience “more disease” by reopening things too soon and dealing with a second wave of the virus. More death — will certainly happen if we reopen things too soon and overwhelm hospitals even more than they already are.
TBH without a DNR I don’t take this brand of hot take too seriously. In theory it’s population control, until you’re the one intubated in the ER.
Chief
I mean at some point this will and should 100% happen. I think August is a reasonable cut off. Kids have to go to school.
It’s a vicious cycle - if you want to open up the economy you need to open up day cares or schools. Yes I am too thinking end of Summer but are we just going to quarantine every winter now?
So change it to you or your kid being immunocompromised, still all good with “just accept it and move forward”?
Rising Star
SM1, right now in the US yes in general, although arguably for some states. My comment was aimed at IBM1.
You can “re-open the economy” and send us back to our offices. It doesn’t change the fact that we’re not going to spend money on travel, sports, restaurants, malls,
etc when we run the risk of contracting a virus or spreading it to others. And with so much of our economy dependent on consumerism, would the economy really be “open” under such circumstances?
We need testing. Similar to South Korea. Information will calm the public. And Christ, it’s been like a month. You’re talking as if you’ve been starving behind enemy lines during the Russian winter. Let’s not start deciding who we’re going to eat just yet.
Speak for yourself. I’m very excited to go back to restaurants, bars, concerts, clubs, etc as soon as possible. I’m sure plenty of others would be too, and I live in Manhattan.
No OP. Have a shred of humanity or be less than human.
Some governments are planning that
It’s hubristic to think we could control this virus in the first place and the data is slowly backing up that conclusion
If they were my clients I’d promise them true love and a future 😘
Rising Star
What does it say about us as a society that we haven’t figured out how to meet everyone’s basic needs without having to work for a living?
If we had that figured out, would so many still feel so strongly about “re-opening the economy?”
Awww.. loved how a heated discussion had a beautiful conclusion 😍 so against this apps policy 😜
Chief
Congratulations. Officially the worst post I've ever seen on Fishbowl.
Yes I’ve thought similar things but the problem is this isn’t going anywhere and could wipe out millions. We need to find some way to get it under control.
Imagine the baby boom we’re in for.
Completely unrelated, but my brother once told me he accepts me for being gay because he believes all gays are nature's natural method of population control
I mean, how can I say he is?