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Mentor
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My two cents - to retire in your 40s with two kids on the younger side plus a mortgage on the younger side, I would want at least $5M
I think first priority should be to buy a home. Kids are way more expensive than most people think
This! People grossly underestimate how much kids cost and you never know what hand you may be dealt. We have been in the ER more times than I can count since my son was born because of his asthma and chronic sinusitis, even with good insurance these things add up, his medications, surgeries etc. and then sports and other school activities cost money then the fact they grow every season so clothes and shoes constantly need replacing - it adds up quick
Coach
Seems to me that this is a you problem. Why is the debt “her debt”? You’re married, pay it off. Then you can start working together on a shared goal instead of each pursuing their own goal (of which, one is actually realistic).
Coach
Counseling is how you get on the same page. Right and wrong doesn't matter here. It's what you two agree on that matters. It's your life together. If she is cool with you retiring early and you're cool doing what you want while your spouse works go for it. That's not the retirement I would want but your life is not my life.
I think her feelings are as valid as yours. Sometimes when you put this goal in front of you, you can forget to live. Sounds like she wants to do a healthy mix. Maybe ask her to join this bowl and that will help. Maybe offer suggestions to make sure she is saving xx% per month. Kids are expensive. They are hard. But the kid free time can’t be replicated so maybe meet her in the middle. Make sure you are saving xx% and able to still take a vacation. Maybe once she has kids, she won’t want to work. Maybe she will and you won’t want to. There are a lot of ways to go, but don’t discredit what’s she has done and what she earns (granted this is predicated on her not over-spending on frivolous stuff). Saying this as a working professional with 2 kids.
You need to actually put your numbers on paper, by month and by year, from today until 95 years old, and run scenarios with different savings and spending amounts
I think before you actually have kids you have no idea what you are actually going to want (FIRE-wise) and how much you need to save. 1) Kids are expensive, 2) You may not want to stay home with them. Just let life take you where it will and pivot as necessary.
I’d also say that after having kids his wife might want to stay home. I have a friend who loved her job, made tons of money, saved but not aggressively, bought the big luxury house with the high mortgage before having kids and now it’s no longer an option. She wants more than anything to be a SAHM. Now they have too much overhead, not as big of an egg as she could have with her salary and her husband doesn’t make enough to do it solo.
You are my spouse and me 6 years ago when we got married. I made more, he had more wealth. Overall FIRE is a mindset and an aspiration. You can’t be so strict about it that you alienate your significant other. You marry and combine finances with the partner you trust and make decisions together. I’ve personally let my husband run with the investments because he enjoys it. Maybe your partner will do the same. We’ve now had our kids and surpassed our FIRE goal in our early 40s but still want to work so we continue working. You mentioned you’re both in your mid-30s and want kids. That doesn’t come easy for everyone at that age and infertility treatments are costly and stressful. You also don’t know what kind of needs your future children (or you or loved ones) may have. A good friend uprooted her life and moved to a place that had better services for her special needs son. She also gave up her profession in order to do so and be hands on with him. Another friend is supporting her mom in memory care and she may be there for over a decade. Have contingency plans in place in case the unthinkable happens. Wishing you success and an easy glide path to retirement.
Thank you, this gives me hope and perspective!
In your conversations I would focus less on the $$ and more on what you each want life to look like (Ramit Sethi’s content is great for this). With that level of savings you have so many options and maybe it means you retire early and she doesn’t but I think there are more conversations to have before you determine that. You also didn’t mention what annual income you are aiming for?
Mentor
Here are my thoughts and questions to you ...
- Married vs being in a long term relationship changes a lot. I may have missed it, but I don't think I saw "married" anywhere but SO. Assets (JOWROS), taxes (MFJ), and just finances in general work differently if you're legally married.
- If you are married, there's no my assets and their assets. You can categorize them separately but at the end of the day, if all assets don't belong to you both, it is a precursor for something to go wrong.
- You both have to figure out, and be on the same page, for the best, optimal, and worst case scenarios of your fire number.
For example:
• Best case scenario: Your yearly expenses are $100k, with cautionary withdrawal rate of 2.5% you'd need to have $4m in draw down-able assets
• Optimal case: Your expenses are $90k, with 3%, you'll need $3m
• Worst case: $80k at 3.5% will need $2.285m
Only you know your numbers. Play around with those levers.
- There's nothing wrong in only one spouse being FIRE if that's what the both of you decide on doing. But again, it has to be clearly discussed and finalized by you both.
- Far too many, like 98-99%, people who think about FIRE will never end up FIRE because of the "onemoreyear-itis". Being on the right side of that takes a boat load of planning and courage.
All the best.
Just to correct your second point. You can legally have your, mine and our assets if you create a prenup or live in a state where the default marriage contract laws outline an ownership you both agree with. If you are at an age when you are getting married with any significant assets (like me) you will both have significant “mine” assets.
Do you want to stay home with the kids? Or have daycare/ nanny while retired?
I was like your wife, I enjoyed my job and made it my identity, my husband wanted to fire and I did the fire plan, but thought I would just work forever while he retired cause my career was so fulfilling. That lasted like 14 years and then once we hit our number, every meeting, every single irritating thing about work just added up and then it was easy to want to fire because I was just burned out. I hope that doesn’t happen to your spouse, but it is pretty easy to be burned out when you have met your Fire number.
Other people have weighed in on the numbers and math here but I'm going to say - take a bigger picture view to appreciate what you have for a second, outside of the numbers.
A SO it seems you get along with and cherish time with. Also a SO who is a saver; and FIRE orientated. There are people who would LOVE for their SO to just not spend as much, let alone also be pursuing FIRE.
You are on the same chapter, just different pages. It will take some compromising on both of your ends and also realizing that life happens when you're busy making other plans. What happens if either of you retire and realize you miss the challenges or socialization of work. What happens if either of you or a child has certain health issues and taking a job allows way more cushion or support.
I think Ramit Sethi and the idea of "rich life" would be good for both of you to write down what your ideal rich life would be in ~10 years and 20 years and then do the math from there.
It will probably take some compromising in the middle. Maybe you both agree to 4M and retiring at 45 vs. 40. Or one of you retires a bit before the other, or go part time/hobby jobs for a bit of cushion. And just remember that you're both on the same team and on the same chapter-don't fight or argue over SAVING 5% more. you're already crushing it, and at this point you're discussing the financials of going to Disney world once a year vs. every 2-3 years.
She thinks collectively we are all set with growth in all the accounts to retire before 60 (plus social security). I would like to retire in 40s and I dont think we have enough. We are mid-30s now. We want to have at least two kids. We have good jobs and salaries, and I think we still need to prioritize saving for a bit before we can let go a little and enjoy life. She thinks we should be good and can live a little now becausewho knows whatthe future will hold. I've tried asking why, she thinks 2-3m reach is enough. It's not that simple though in my mind. Kids, healthcare in the future, any other unexpected expenses, etc...Trying to put a plan in place now to save for a down-payment too. Social security is not guaranteed.
How do we get on the same page? Or do we follow our own paths to retire?
Am I being overly conservative / scarcity mindset? Is she being overly optimistic?
Subject Expert
Have you merged finances? Do you plan to? It seems like no/no, but is that right?
Have you identified the marginal spending at issue, and how much it would cost, and how much it would delay FI for you? When you would be FI under each scenario?