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Three day weekends really need to be a thing. ASAP.
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Firm should enforce a mandatory unpaid 3 month leave for those who don’t get pass cpa after year 5. Return to employment contingent on passing rest of exams.
This is clearly a challenge in our industry that seems to have become worse in recent years.
While it may solve a short term need, in the long run it is a problem to have career seniors. There are numerous downsides and negative impacts, that in my opinion, outweigh any benefits (maybe at the temp level I feel differently).
To succeed, any business (any profession) needs people who are driven and motivated. I understand there are dozens of reasons (excuses) why people cant pass the exam during their first 5 years. But I suggest in most cases the reason rests with the candidates skills, drive, passion, motivation, desire, etc.
Another issue is the inconsistency among firms and how strict they are with the "need to be a CPA to be a manager" policy. A few firms require it to be a senior (or offices within a large firm get stricter like that) while other firms/offices allow people to be managers without it. Very frustrating, especially because this inconsistency even happens among the Big4.
We all need to find a way to better hold staff accountable for making the exam a priority (and staff need to look in the mirror and find a way to be self starters). If you're a staff or senior and have not yet passed (or even taken) the exam, let this be a catalyst and wake up call. Whether you plan to stay in PA or move on, getting your CPA is highly valuable and you just need to set your mind to it. It only gets harder as time passes.
Just do it! Good luck!
If they are really good at their job why would they? You get a good “manager” at the billable rate of a senior and you get to pay them less also. But if they are average or below then send them packing.
With the shortage of both managers and seniors in public, no
^Preach P1!! It is truly a test of commitment. My friend who took the bar and passed it the first time gave me the best advice - for the three months before the exam, don't plan anything on your schedule except studying. Put your friends and family on alert that except for holidays, you are going to be studying. I certainly over studied for the exam, but it was once and done and out of the way. It's a sacrifice, but if you put in the time, you'll do it.
My only issue with acting managers is that they are often scheduled as the senior on the job, based on their title. If they’re the senior on the job.... either a lot gets pushed onto the other staff/seniors that wouldn’t be if the acting manager were “acting” the level that they were scheduled as, or the acting manager ends up actually being the senior on the job and has had to be a senior for many more years than the senior role is supposed to last, which results in extreme burnout. Seems like a no-win situation to me. If they are scheduled as the manager on the job and the engagement is staffed appropriately for that, then great, but at that point I see a lot of resentment toward the firm start to build because they are the manager on the job but not being paid at that level or given the title.
OP that’s on them though. If they don’t buckle down and pass the exams like everyone else they’re going to have to deal with people getting promoted above them. Most firms will let you take sabbatical and all of the big four have good PTO policies. Let’s not forget the free Becker. There are too many tools at their disposal for them to not be able to obtain a license if they truly want to.
@ey1 yeah and their bills could be paid by the bill pay fairy! 🧚♀️
Partner 1 always coming through with the insight!
I’ve tried and tried, failed multiple times. It’s hard. I understand what everyone is saying but I’m a hard worker and good at my job, just bad at test taking. I plan on getting back into it but honestly I just feel so disappointed in myself
D1, keep trying! And try harder. I believe in you!
Big 4 is way too lax on cpa licensing requirements. Law firms require you to pass the bar before starting work. Banks require you to pass series exams within months of starting. Several jobs require you to get licensed prior to working: nurses, physicians, dentists, pilots, real estate agents, esthetician, etc.
If you can’t pass the cpa exam in 5 years, you should consider moving to industry. Or you save all your pto days (25 at Deloitte), which is 5 weeks, take an additional 7 weeks of unpaid leave, which is three full months of studying. Plenty of college kids with no work ethic pass it in summer before they start. You are a hardened big 4 veteran, who has cranked out 80-90 hour weeks, passing all 4 in 3 months should be a breeze.
So I guess what I’m saying is yes they should be pushed out, I don’t think it’s really a good situation for anyone involved
Presumably at that level your technical skills are solid. That said, why wouldn’t you strive to get your CPA? After ~5 years in PA, one would think you could knock out the exam. I also feel that if you don’t have your certification while others do at the same level, you’re surely looked down upon
Look. Selling work is not for everyone. Managing revenue is not for everyone. Climbing that ladder isn’t everyone’s dream. What is wrong with being happy with where you are at? I enjoy my job. I enjoy being able to avoid all the weird political shit that drains hours from the week and years from our lives. I enjoy having some autonomy over my day to day while not being responsible for signing shit. My refusal to become a manager opens up another spot for someone else, so what does it really matter?
I think that there would be a lot of resentment from them as people who worked below them get promoted above them.
D1: I’m in the same boat.
Unfortunately, I’m in the boat of everyone this post is about. I think what sets me apart of everyone else are my “excuses” as to why I haven’t finished. When I first started (5 years ago) I passed 2 (FAR bad AUD) and was working towards the 3rd then my mother passed away. I could hardly live life losing a mother when I was 24yo, let along live, plan my mother’s funeral, arrange my mother’s affairs, work at a Big 4 and study for CPA... so I unfortunately took a break from CPA. A long break that ruined my study habits when I was ready to hit the ground running. I took a Month break as an S1 from work to study but suckeddddd at it (I had been out of the routine for too long). Ever since S2 I have been the Lead Senior on a large integrated audit, which as P1 indicated has only made it harder. Additionally, all of my engagement reviews have been excellent in the past few years and I have maxed out encores every year - which further shows that I do not work 40 hour weeks and even during PTO I am most times not completely removed from work.
So OP to answer your question, I personally, from experience, believe that we 5th years should not be kicked out... not yet at least. I have every intention to pass because not getting promoting and recently finding out that someone in a class below mine (who has not had the same work challenges) was promoted in my spot are both simply because of an exam and are both horrible nightmares.
There is literally no excuse not to pass in 5 years. I completely agree that big 4 is too lax on CPA passing requirements. I took all 4 in two testing windows/four months in my last semester of college. Literally studied every waking hour, while I ate dinner, while shitting on the toilet, till 1-2am, and every weekend, etc. Still had to go to class, do homework and study for exams for the classes I was taking. There is a reason credits for exams you’ve passed expires in 18 months. It’s because you’re not supposed to take longer than that!
KPMG 2 totally agree, except then they make actual seniors life miserable.
Point would be to scare them straight to finish it before year 5. Financial consequences = results