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If you tell them upfront you are only looking for full time and stick with that line even if they offer you freelance then you will have better odds. You should be willing to walk away though to make it clear that freelance to perm is not an option for you. You wont get every role but if you make your red lines for negotiation clear then recruiters will know what are dealbreakers for you - and if they believe in you will fight those battles internally for you on your behalf.
I am extremely clear about my intentions for FT. Unfortunately I don’t have the financial luxury right now of “cherry picking” work. I have bills to pay and people to support. I take whatever I can get
I see no reason not to WANT temp to perm.
1) while temp, the day rate you set can be as much as 2x what you make full time, in my experience. That is wayyyyy more than you need to cover the expenses of benefits. Even with a family. Enjoy the extra money.
2) Know what sucks? Getting a full time job at your dream place then realizing you hate it. This allows you to make sure you like them before committing.
3) I’ve been offered full time at almost every place I’ve freelanced, and they didn’t even start as temp to perm roles. Do a good job and people will want to keep you around. It doesn’t matter how you started there. And don’t say “what if I don’t do well enough, isn’t the security of full time nice to guarantee?” No, not really. Because you can be fired from full time just as easily as from freelance with a touch more paperwork. Trust me. It’s happened to me.
#firstworldproblems
Nope just letting the hiring manager know whats important to you. Its a negotiation. If you dont tell people what you want you wont get it.
1- They do it because they can. If there were less candidates out in the market, you bet they'd put a ring on it. 2- Speed. They wait til an emergency and need someone right away and FT hiring takes too long. 3&4 - Volatile Industry and terrible planning. There are so many ups and downs they can't predict how many people they will need in 2 months. I can probably list 5 more if you give me a minute. Also I've been there, as in 2 unemployed agency people with 2 kids to feed, on cobra, for 9 months. I cried a lot that year.
If temp to perm is with a company you want to work for do it. And impress the hell out of them.
A lot of companies have an uncertain profit stream right now. Clients are moving from retainer to project-based. Some companies are afraid to hire full time right now. R/GA1 is right. But this isn’t something you should take as a judgment on you as a person.
I agree w/ r/ga. I’ve been freelance for a while & trying to go full time. I’ve also had permalance that didn’t go full time. It seems like once you’re freelance, companies put you into that mental bucket & don’t think of you for full time. Plus there’s no real incentive to convert unless you continue interviewing for other jobs
Honestly I wish our company did temp to perm. Some of the recent hires they’ve made ended up not knowing what they’re doing. Partly because there’s always this chaos of having to get someone fast, partly because our HR isn’t very good at finding people, but I do wish we could work with people first before just going off what’s in their book. I wish our portfolios could be a reflection of the work we produce, but from the last few hires I’ve seen you really never know until you work with someone.
Won’t deny it’s definitely a fail on our HRs part. It’s just because they’re so useless that I wish we did temp to perm.
How is it bias? It's a vetting tool. I wish more companies did this so employees could see which ones are chaotic messes too.
It sounds like you are finding out these jobs are temp to FT in the interview. If that's the case you're either sourcing opportunities from less accurate job sites or you are not reading the entire job description. If the job status changed from FT to temp after you met with someone there would be an issue, but I doubt that's the case. I have hired many temp to perm people along the way. The simple reason for most of this was I didn't have approval on a FT spot but had the work needed to be done. If it's a temp to perm spot and the company is being honest, they are interviewing you not as a temp, but as FT. If the spots good, take it, we all need to pay bills and it's a chance for FT. That doesn't and shouldn't stop you from interviewing elsewhere. And if you get a FT offer, that gives you an opportunity to make a choice.
What do you mean? It seems most FT roles start as temp with a view to perm.
If I were already FT, they wouldn’t expect me to freelance first. It’s a weird double standard that I can’t figure out
I was stuck in this place for over a year at an agency. It was disappointing and degrading. I get where you are coming from. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. It is a foot in the door, that many can't even get.
What I will say is, as long as you are working in a "right to work" state, you all are on a temp to perm status. The companies we work for can let us go, at anytime, even if "perm".
As long as clients are moving to more project based contracts, it is better to prepare yourself to constantly bounce around, until industry swings the other way. Take those freelance rates until stability returns.
If you are getting the work consistently at very least you should be proud of that. If it is truly an open position and they want you, they will convert it to FT as soon as possible so that finance doesn’t “close” the open position if a downturn happens. Alternatively, they keep the position open/freelance so that if there is a downturn, that open position is cut and they avert an expensive layoff. You need to make yourself highly desirable, the need must be strong. Once you get foot in door, work your ass off. Had to do myself and it worked.
@OP so you would walk away if they “only” wanted to keep you as a freelancer? Help me understand why. Why not ride the freelance wave until you get a FT offer? Isn’t R/GA 1’s advice kinda like bullying someone into proposing marriage?
NEED BENEFITS. Independent healthcare is less than mediocre and it’s expensive. Not every freelancer has the benefit of staying freelance
Long term? You can test the waters that way...
OP I feel your pain I've been playing the temp to perm game at one agency since October.