Related Posts
Mentor
More Posts
Bowl Leader
Ever felt this??
Coinbase should do a Black Friday sale.
Additional Posts in Consulting
any fishes in Memphis, TN ?
What Time Zone are you in?
Houston downtown JW vs Westin.. Thoughts?
Layoffs at Walmart corporate 😬😬
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
I got about 30 seconds into it when I saw the "women have a higher agreeableness factor". As someone dealing with situations I do NOT agree with professionally right now, I am bordering the "bitch" line by not being agreeable. I am tapping out. This faux science is what got us Trump and Men's Rights and All Lives Matter. 🙈
This manifesto is like a jar of honey with a teaspoon of shit in it. People who say "but he still had a few valid points" just can't taste the shit. Having a discussion about work discrimination & equality based on this document is like working out ways to resolve Germany's problems between WWI and WWII based on Mein Kampf.
His argument at its core: "differences in outcomes can be explained by biology, not discrimination." Extend that thought to its logical conclusion
C1, almost by definition its not true about most female googlers. But his point wasn't about them, it was about all the ostensibly "missing"' women who are not goooglers. Any googler who cannot reason their way through that one is arguably not qualified to be a googler. I think the entire place just exposed itself as far less than they hold themselves out to be.
@booz1 turn your monitor on
I find that there are quite a few people able and willing to carry a substantive discussion on this kind of topic, but that doing so requires an extremely careful use of language and stopping to define terms and clarify arguments, because the topic is a minefield of trigger words and rote formulations. When you use one of the trigger words inadvertently, a train car full of unintended baggage is hooked to the rest of your statement. And when your statement starts to resemble a formulation that has been turned into an article of faith through repetition, your statement becomes that oft-repeated phrase. And it happens in both directions. But if you're willing to be patient and ask for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions when the other person says something that triggers you, you can have a good conversation. It's sad that our language around sensitive topics has been weaponized by the ideological warriors on all sides.
AT3, in his post he also mentions "false positives." Googlers who should not be there. He is saying there are more unqualified women at google than unqualified men. Again, I think that suggesting that about women creates a hostile work environment
Well EY4, to have a productive conversation, both sides need to engage in honest dialogue without relying on their inherent bias. Take your statement above, it's simply not correct. Multiple twin studies have identified intelligence as genetic in origin, so not really "malleable" as you put it. The cruel truth is we are not all born equal and while we should have equal opportunity, that will not necessarily lead to equal outcome.
@EY4 You keep making assertions and emotional statements, but you haven't even tried to present evidence. I suppose it's self evident to you that you know the real truth here. If you feel like understanding the other side of the argument, I recommend searching on YouTube for a documentary called Brainwash. Just search "brainwash documentary Norway." There is a playlist with all 7 parts.
@Accenture4, I really appreciate your refreshing perspective! I agree, "women" are not a monolithic entity that always behave the same way and have the same traits. Almost like we should treat people, regardless of genitals, as individuals, and work to support that individual in succeeding.
He has the right to free speech, even in California. Google also has the right to fire him for exercising his rights. God bless America. As to women in technology, I have more female employees than male - a ratio of nearly 50:50 but a bit towards the women. I never really think to care about it, the work gets done very well no matter who is doing it.
@atk3 that makes a lot of sense. I have never looked into the IQ studies, so it is interesting to hear. I've only ever heard them used to justify men>women, whites>other races, etc. I didn't realize that it was deeper than that. IIRC, he only mentions the IQ differences as an example of how men and women differ, so perhaps he should have clarified. Or perhaps I'm just uneducated on the subject.
I don't see where he said that women are genetically predisposed to sucking at technology. He does suggest that women are genetically predisposed to Google's workplace environment. It's a logical step to seek diversity by changing Google's workplace environment, which is what he recommends.
What doyou think people are upset about lol? If he was simply suggesting a more effective way to increase diversity nobody would be upset. He dogwhistles his intent throughout the document. I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse...
Where is the interior part? Which pages does he say that men are superior?
The majority of the document is him listing "biological" differences between men and women and using those differences as reasons why women are underrepresented at Google. What is the implication there?
Even if that were true, the women currently at Google, and the women trying to get into Google, don't fit that generalization, and none of them are going to want to work with him after this. Hence, fired.
Also even those who are "missing" but would be relevant to the recruiting initiatives are ones who are interested in this line of work, so his biological generalizations (even if valid) don't apply to those females as well, and yet his conclusions were about initiatives impacting that group. There are too many logic leaps and erroneous logic in his memo that I am too lazy to hash out on my phone. Also I don't have time to write a 20pg response to his 10 pager. Suffice to say I didn't find his memo convincing, and neither did his boss apparently.
D4, what page are the inferiority claims on? I missed them.
@d4 good job with the productive discussion thing.
I feel most problems could be avoided by not being a dick
What was the PURPOSE of the manifesto in the first place? Did he feel marginalized at work? Seriously, why send an internal memo? Why not approach HR?Did he think it was the best avenue to express himself? Google fired him because he openly created a hostile working environment (among other reasons). Everyone is entitled to their opinions, fine, but his approach was ill-considered.
I think the purpose was he was tired of working at google and would settle for a nice lawsuit settlement package to go along with some fame