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I’ve mentored a lot of recently transitioned vets and this is common. I only served a few years as junior enlisted so maybe I was able to remold myself after, but it’s a tough pill to swallow that the world will not change for you and you have to change to adapt. My advice is to find a hobby that you can be “brash” at to get it out of your system. Hit the gym. Chop wood. Build something. But that behavior at work can be detrimental to your civilian career. Good luck
This is really solid advice.
Listen, be yourself, period. If you know your are “Brash” what’s wrong with that? Honestly? Are you being constructive in your criticism or are you just being mean? That’s the difference. DO NOT stop being brash, just change the manner in which you are. And “off the cuff” means you speak the truth but is your truth professional or unprofessional? That’s the difference. I have changed my vocabulary but not who I am, what I stand for, my ow standards or why I say what I say, I just make it up professionally and with tact. In the end, nobody cares about your service, just how mature you have finished it.
Learn the rules of the game? What rules? I still talk to my students in the same stern and direct manner I spoke to my juniors, the only difference is I do not curse or knife hand them. I would never accept “softness” or being “agreeable” to me those mean: Soft = Not capable of taking constructive criticism
Agreeable = Yes Men
HST1 The rules of the game are learning to be direct/decisive/assertive while reading the room and likely not possessing the authority to just make people do what you want them to do. Life is a series of games, that is all. Learn the rules so you know how to bend them to your goals and win.
No offense but being a teacher is entirely different than being a consultant or corporate leader, and being generally agreeable is not being soft unless you allow yourself to get run over.
Rising Star
No one cares if you agree with it — you either learn to modulate that piece of your behavior, or you get fired
Pro
Bro just be a nice person lmao. It’s pretty easy.
Reminds me of folks from high school on Facebook: "I'm not afraid to tell it like it is."
No, Megan. You're an asshole.
If learning to adapt for your own personal career growth isn’t motivation enough, consider that every time a vet goes out and perpetuates the “brash/off the cuff” stereotype, you dissuade your peers from wanting to hire/work with vets in the future.
Fact of the matter is if you find it difficult to not be rough around the edges, a corporate job may not be for you.
Lol, what? You shouldn't have been a tool in the military either. You probably got away with it because the military is notoriously unmeritocratic.
A1 I love those shirts as much as I love Tap Out rear window stickers. They let me know which assholes to avoid.
Being brash and “off-the-cuff” aren’t great in the military either. Sounds like you’re having an issue cooperating with others and deadline with varying view points.
Sounds like you need to reflect on your approach and then choose the best career.
Generally agree with this. I truly learned the art of teamwork in the service
I remember that feeling. I encourage you to ask yourself: Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Determining when it's appropriate to be "hard" and when to be "soft" is a professional skill that can be honed. I hope you find your balance.
And to bandwagon on Amazon 1's sentiment, when I lived in an apartment in the city I went to a rage room several times to work out some built up aggression that lingered from my active duty experience. Later on, I bought a house in the country with a fire box and now process my own wood (fell, chop, and restack a few times a year to rotate for drying) as a winter heat supplement. For me, the necessity is motivation; the labor is therapy.
Some ppl are just assholes and hide behind the “I’m a vet and super tough” mentality lol 😂
Thank you!
Yes, unfortunately, we are really expected to be totally soft and agreeable. It's like that in government and I'd expect it to be even more so in corporate America. I disagree with Analyst 1. It's not just about being a nice person. It's the expectation that you need to be constantly jovial and ensure everyone feels pleased and heard. People get offended about everything. I'm a nice person. Last week, I sent a direct email at work (I'm a veteran). I was not rude, disrespectful, or inappropriate in the email. My supervisor called me and yelled at me about the email, saying people were offended I wrote that email and complained about it. All because I politely asked them to do their job. So yes, it's something you must adjust to or get out. Your directness and brashness will be interpreted as aggression and a poor "culture fit." The military to civilian transition can be tough. It's something to be aware of. When you're on the job, you'll need to adjust your personality.
Was your email like "pretty please, with sugar on top, do your fucking job"?
I think it’s possible to modify your tone/style without compromising your standards and integrity. It’s a tough balance to make sometimes but it gets easier the longer you work in the private sector. Good luck. You’ll be fine.
I think there's a false dichotomy here. I couldn't count the amount of times I had infantry NCOs get butthurt about trivial stuff or when I had "frank" conversations with them. Everyone is human. The military isn't what is being implied it is here.
And I've also noticed a direct correlation between the guys that "speak frankly" and don't "beat around the bush" and the guys that get the most butthurt when they are the object of "frankness."
Good leadership is good leadership, military or otherwise.
it’s an aristocracy.
u must be soft to peers (or risk being blue falconed) but ur management might be crude to u
Original Associate that made the post. Anyone that suggests you were a tool in military or continue to be are probably soft as milk toast. I have a ton of E8, E9, O4, O5, O6 friends, like legit family that have gone through the exact thing you are going through now. They never changed themselves just modified themselves. I’m telling you right now, I’m a teacher and the one thing I do not do is lower my standards, I never sugar coat anything and tell each and every student the truth along with their parent. Continue to be yourself just adapt your language
Guess I’m that .1%
Everyone has an opinion, they are all entitled to one, this is Vet forum so we all fought to protect that freedom. In my opinion, principal1 just believes that I’m a jerk, or just likes correcting people. Either way, from the origins of the initial post, constructive criticism is not sugar coating, and being agreeable, as someone suggested, is being a “yes” men. All I ever said was to be yourself and modify how you say things. Also suggested that most people today are just soft minded, as soft as a piece of bread dipped in milk. ✌🏽
Everyone is soft these days, half these leaders couldn’t lead a team out of a wet paper bag.
Just treat people how you want to be treated and if that leads to a new career, so be it. Better to be yourself and make the little golden rule adjustments and see where it takes you, than becoming someone your not to please everyone else.
I ride this line daily. I hate my job but it’s a means to an end so I have to fake it for now. I work with people who have no drive, no hunger, they don’t want to be the best in the room or any room for that matter. The work ethic just isn’t there.
Just be you.
Find areas you need to work on… don’t change yourself completely. Just modify. I’m in the same boat.
I looked at it as a task. It's in your best interest to analyze and adapt to your environment. Remove the ego and bravado and look at the situation in a way that will give you personally the best outcome. If your management is touchy feely, build off their manerism and the way they speak. It will lead to better opportunities and less work for you. Work smarter not harder. Or work manual labor, where they don't give a crap and you'll always struggle.
I took a while to unlearn that. For me I worked for an Army captain that had spent years in the field for two years, and next boss was former USAF SP. so being “biased for action” and “frank unfiltered discussions” was not a problem. So when I had to move into. Customer and client facing role, it was a big adjustment. Had to really dial in the “read the room” and “get buy in” and forget what I was taught while watching 12 o’clock high and cane mutiny.
For sure. That is why first thing I had to get right was reading the room. Gotta know when “military” mode is called for (not often) and how to do the other leadership style of selling and getting buy in. Everyone gets recruiters calling on linked in, and if you make them hate coming to work with you, they don’t have to come back tomorrow. It’s all volunteers that you have to get to opt in again tomorrow
I have a similar problem. I'm banned from most social media websites for being too honest and "based". I was a Machinist Mate. We weren't conformist and weren't politically correct down in the "Pit". MM is one of the worst jobs you can get. We already had shitty work hours. When I went to Captains Mass and was put in a separate disciplinary division it was like a vacation from my normal job. Serve your country, nobody gives a Fuck about you, they require a college degree over your military work experience, now the entire country wants to be woke and politically correct. I'm not letting my kids join the service whenever I decide to have any.
I hope all of these politically correct and woke civilians kids start getting drafted.