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It varies tremendously from place to place, but often depends on you. I worked big law hours in house for years until I reset my priorities as the effort was clearly not appreciated. I send more out to outside counsel and some stuff just doesn’t get done. I have occasional long days now, but probably average 45-50 hours a week.
Yeah i always was skeptical when i heard other people say this, but the ppl i see working crazy hours in house are largely doing it to themselves. I am generally responsive and timely and have never had issues pushing back on client deadlines when i wanted to grab dinner with my family instead of keep working. I think a lot of the art comes in knowing the business enough to know what really is urgent.
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Sometimes I don’t have enough work to fill my day. Other times I work 10-11 hour days. Sometimes in the same week.
A few times a year, I’ll be back up in my office after dinner and on weekends to get deals progressed.
Normally though, it’s a 8:30 or 9:00 to 5:30 or 6:00 gig for me (typically leaving early on Friday), but with some emails and an occasional call after dinner.
I echo similar comments. I've interviewed with a few start-ups and have been told straight up there is no WLB. No set hours, you have to be on the clock 24/7 because there are constant fires with a new company. When I asked what the company has to offer employees I was told "opportunity - its just a very hard space to break into". Needless to say I declined to move forward with them. I don't see the purpose of doing big law hours in-house for likely a fraction of the pay. That doesn't mean in-house doesn't pay well (though some positions do not) but comparatively if you are are doing the same amount of hours your salary is better in big law.
Yeah the upside is the equity
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You're barking up the wrong tree for WLB. Try larger established companies that have work life balance built in, which is usually built into the compensation (lower).
Don't know anyone who has cush 9 to 3, those days have been gone for over a decade now.
Going to a pre IPO startup or even a newly IPOed company is asking for a lot of hours.
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It is far more exciting in my book. Try to figure out exactly why you are burnt out and resolve the specific issues when you jump next.
There are long periods where I've worked harder in house than my law firm days but I still love what I do now.
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OP, I think the key takeaway here is that few people are working consistent 9-5 with no nights or weekends ever. And even fewer people are 9-3.
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Chief legal office of small legal department. Probably work 60-70ish hours per week all together.
It varies quite a bit. I’ve worked 40 hours for some companies and 80 for others. Try to do as much research as you can for each prospective employer- Glassdoor, networking, etc., specifically for culture/WLB.
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F50 with large legal team. I work 40-50 hours a week on average. Some are less, some are more. Unless there’s an actual emergency, I don’t go over 60 hours (and 60 hours itself is very, very rare). Typically any evening/weekend work is because I had something going on during the week (doctors appointment, travel, etc.). I have a great team and reasonable business partners. It’s wonderful.
What type of company, generally speaking?
I think for WLB a boutique is the way to go. Reason being that the lawyers who started that boutique were probably in the same boat you're in - they had a portable book of business except they wanted WLB.
With that said, and I'll invite others chime in for me here because I'm sorta talking out my behind (this is all hearsay), but my understanding is that gen counsel work is not nearly as difficult or punishing as working at a firm, where your job is to provide detailed analysis. There's an understanding that you're serving as a generalist and the firm will need outside counsel for the crazy stuff, and that your job is to put out small fires (before they get big) and provide quick answers to stream of relatively simple questions, like, "would it be illegal if I tattooed the Dodge logo on my chest for a monetized YouTube video?"
im in house employment counsel for our HR dept and I work when they work which is 40 hours a week. aside from occasional litigation (handled by outside counsel) where I may need to review pleadings or something, nothing happens in HR world after 4pm.
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Same. I keep waiting for things to explode over the weekend, but so far so good.
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It depends. What you describe is my life right now with the rare 10 hour day.
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I haven’t worked a weekend yet!
Ebbs and flows…been at places where i was in from 8-8 (remember gotta be there while the business is operating for meetings and for the business team to come and sit and ask questions…and then time to actually do work after they go home) plus some weekends. Also depends on your budget for outside counsel.
I work about 830-500, but I do take an actual lunch break. Occasionally answer emails for 30 minutes at night. I’ve worked one weekend day in 2.5 years.
What type of company, generally speaking?
It depends I was at a F500 with a thin legal team where I consistently worked 60+ hours. Now I’m at a F10 and I typically work 50ish but sometimes more depending on what’s going on. I have worked late nights and weekends but only when necessary
In house & sometimes but very rarely work past 5.
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What’s your industry and how big is the company?
I agree with many of the other responses here. My work time can vary considerably. I’ve worked some 40-hour weeks (even some pretty light 40-hour weeks where I’ve had a lot of time to dabble in things that I just wanted to do). On the other hand, I’ve worked 100-hour weeks on a few rare occasions. In 2018, I had two consecutive months where I would get to the office at 8:00 a.m. and leave for a few hours of sleep around 2:00 a.m. before starting up again the next day. If it had kept up, I certainly would have quit. For me, the most typical schedule varies between 40 and 60 hours per week.
I’m in the energy industry. My practice area deals almost 100% with state level utility regulation.
As other posters have said, it depends. I'm the only attorney at a general contractor with a national presence, about 300 employees, and annual revenue approaching $1B. I typically work 50-60 hrs per week. Some weeks are lighter (but still require face-time in the office); some weeks are heavier (rare); but I'm always on-call. Do your homework and figure out what works for you.
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This is basically biglaw hours!
It depends on the in-house counsel department and the legal budget for outside counsel. At my last job, the GC wanted to reduce outside counsel costs and gave me a hard time about using outside counsel even though if it was warranted for litigation matters. Her disdain for using outside counsel also meant that I had to do a lot of the work myself and could not use outside counsel. She also said that she worked until 8 pm every night and expected the in-house counsel dept to do so as well. Not all in-house counsel opportunities are golden opportunities. It was worst than law firm life.
Rising Star
Ask questions about how the law department is structured overall to get some insight. Companies that have large in-house law departments with specialist attorneys and in-house litigation attorneys are less likely to be reliant on outside counsel for typical business matters. They usually still engage outside counsel for novel or bet-the-company type issues even if they have some in-house specialists.
Or, you could just be frank and ask how their team works with outside counsel. Do they have trusted counsel they work with consistently or do they just engage counsel if a specific need arises?
Thanks everyone for the candid advice and support. For the gigs I’m looking at have very small legal teams (5 people or less) or no teams at all (I’d be the first person in for this practice reporting to the VP). They all “claim” theres WLB but I’m not buying it.
Fwiw I’m working on the weekend right now
I would agree that it depends. I work 60-80 hrs per week on average as the only legal counsel for a regional private company of about 430 employees. I know others in larger companies with an actual legal team who are pretty close to the 40 hr/wk mark. Definitely do your research.
Unfortunately, anything you get on the internet is questionable. Best source is from people inside. Maybe pose the question here when you find a place you’re serious about exploring.