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Decided to payoff my mortgage.
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Vtsax vs fxaix?
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Without knowing your spouse, I suspect the true “why” on why they won’t retire is something else. Many common whys like loss of identity, fear of death, etc. Like EY1 says, maybe therapy or even couples therapy is an option.
If your spouse is worried about risk, you can do TIPS ladders which will set you up with possibly the most safe, risk-free return. Having 3x or even 5x your annual expenses in liquid investments like HYSA will protect you against most historical bear markets as you can liquidate those instead of your nest egg if market goes down. During the 2007 GFC, the DJIA fell by 53% between 10/07 and 03/09.
Coach
My spouse thinks retirement is lazy and one should be absorbed in one's work until death. They are an academic writer and publisher and feels a compulsion to bring as much knowledge to posterity in one's lifetime as possible.
I have a friend who stays home and does not want spouse to retire early - as they think it will hamper their lifestyle and the spouse will meddle more in their time at home
$4m is Fat FIRE... this post is for a therapy bowl.
I mentioned the amount we have because I understand that by objective standards it's enough. my concern was regarding our different viewpoints for retirement and I didn't want the topic to shift towards financials.
My spouse totally deferred to me on when I could retire. Even so, I showed her the numbers and explained my rationale (I'm in 50s, and am starting to transition my role to my deputy so that I can formally retire in a year), showing that we will never run out of money, no matter what the market does, due to diversification and a good pension. That was the key to getting her comfortable. Maybe doing the same with your other half would help? Otherwise, just plan and invest like you have been doing, so that you are entirely comfortable with pulling the plug on your career.
When you do retire- maybe seeing how you are spending your time etc - they may be inspired to join you in your travels etc
Subject Expert
It's worth talking with your partner about what they are afraid of, and thinking about that in light of your plan.
Therapy? Good idea SAM1, wish I had thought of it.
I’m in exact same position. My husband kept saying we need $15m to retire. I showed him the numbers and he agreed that $200k a year would be enough. So our goal is slightly over $5M (mine was $3M). We sat down and broke down the budget of the $200k and I had to change my mind too. Private school for our two kids is more than I thought so we need more than I thought. It’s been a 5 year conversation for us but we are moving through it. And I’d like to retire before our kids are 10, now that we are a few years out we are having more detailed discussions. We still have a ton of disagreements but have both moved a ton in our set ways/expectations.
my guess is that they would throw a number high enough to justify the ongoing need to keep going. I like your perspective, thanks for sharing!
At $4m, you should have already retired. Work is really just a tax on your health, with all the stress, deadlines, routines, requirements and responsibilities that you, your body and your mind, wouldn’t otherwise have. Instead, as a retiree you could be scheduling in your own fitness times and goals, you could be going on relaxing vacations as often as you want, sleep and rest as much as you want, work out your brain with as many good reads as you want, do volunteering stuff that fulfills you if that’s what you want. It’s very different than being stuck in a constant deadline loop and metrics nightmare that is being watched at like a hawk from people like me at HR, I’ll tell you that lol… So do the right thing for you and retire, responsibly manage your awesome nest egg, and let your partner do whatever they want with their own work plans. Side question, did you have a prenup when you got married or is the $4m joint now, despite you being the main earner? If you didn’t, a postnup could also regulate that money in a more individualized manner. Seems like it may need to be that way, since there’s disagreement on how or when it’s spent down.
If the job is truly convenient and relaxed, it may be fine continuing it just to keep yourself distracted and active. It’s also clear that retirement is appealing to you though, given the big money that you have already, so I guess you’ll have to figure out when it’s comfortable for you to retire. Also, even though the money was accumulated during marriage, not all states treat it as jointly owned. Some states still consider it separate, and it also depends on how it’s structured into your accounts legally speaking. Since there may be a contest now or in the future about when to retire and start spending more of it, perhaps a good idea for now would be to independently look into who would have the legal power to fully decide on the usage of that money. As some people above are saying, their partners may disagree on when to retire, and I’m not sure if you’d want to be in a position where you do feel ready to retire, but can’t use the money independently because your partner has the power to block it somehow. It would essentially amount to a veto on your retirement plans, so that’s not good either. My advice is to follow your heart and be as informed as possible so that you are best positioned for retirement at any time you personally feel like it.
This sounds like a situation for therapy. You might need an impartial third party to help you work through some of these issues. You don't want to be building resentment because you're stuck working past when you think you should be able to stop. And you don't want to force her to stop working if she's not comfortable with the idea.
I agree with you.
Congrats on your finances and condolences for your massive difference in financial philosophy
thank you 🫠
I was considering moving the goal post on my fire number and then read Die With Zero and it renewed my commitment to retiring at my goal (which I’ll hit in 2 years). The author has a rebuttal to the “what about the kids?” argument (basically plan for & give them the money now rather than make them wait for an inheritance). I think what woke me up is realizing FIRE optimizes for not touching your principal (4% withdrawal rate) but if you want to spend it down all, you don’t really need a lot. I physically couldn’t spend my FIRE # in the years I have left to live even without considering investment growth. Avg life span is 80. For you, if you live 40 more years, you could spend $100k/year before the money is gone. Obviously your money is still going to be making money in that time so you’ll have buffer even if you live to 100. See if she’d be open to reading the book together and having a conversation about it?
Yes the author had a great point that $ would be most useful to your children in their 20s ands 30s and money received later in life tends to not make a difference
I feel like we are completely separate places when it comes to retirement so I'm unsure where to go from here. I just need to make my own plans I guess. let them do whatever they want.
Retirement is also not death. At least where we live, “ I know (older) retired gents that have “consulting“ gigs. They make it what they want. One is a builder and helps his kid (not in the winter) another is a financial/insurance guy who helped his church and he gets some board assignments that pay a bit. So you can bring home 20% of your income maybe for example. No work is odd for industrious people. Plus wisdom needs to be shared. WE HAVE BIG PROBLEMS in the world
If they are visual I’d show graphs and numbers to clarify their worries. Maybe ask if some work arrangements are cool? Maybe they worry you’ll find a side person? I dunno. Unpack it. If it’s Trump well he’ll be gone. Stop watching the news.
Why don't you both work a financial planner to come up with a joint plan for the money you do have ?
yes. I thought about it. we are DIY investors but do realize planning out retirement especially with their viewpoints on things will likely require us to get a third party with help with things. a financial planner for the finances and probably a therapist for everything else 😅
What's an investible assett?
money in investments... brokerage, retirement accounts, HSA, etc.
as in, not money tied to a business or real estate.