Thoughts on pros/cons of moving from a large national firm to a smaller regional one? I’m considering it, but wondering if there’s anything I should be concerned about in making the jump.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

Be prepared to do a lot more yourself. Small firms do not have the support staff that the National firms do. A lot more unbillable admin work.

likehelpful

At A7: pre-covid my am law 200 firm let us expense meals after hours up to a certain amount. It used to be that they would have dinner delivered in and people steadily complained about the quality (cold cuts, pizza) so they moved to like a $20 delivery reimbursement after 7 or so. I mean reimbursement not expense to a client, sorry if that was confusing

like

I'm going to second the comments about less pay and fewer resources. Of course, if you find a good firm, the payoff is fewer hours/less pressure. The catch is that lots of smaller/midsized firms expect biglaw hours, production, and availability for less pay. They may have a lower billable requirement, but your hours are more likely to be docked or written off in the name of keeping the bill down (and still allowing the partner to bill plenty). Black box pay is also incredibly common across smaller firms.

likehelpful
Recent IconRecent

Also depend on the type of firm. Some smaller firms are found by ex biglaw people and they are still intense (they are in growth mode so they expect a lot from you). There are some firms have been there for a long time, quite stable, etc. those are good!

like

Great idea to move to a regional firm if say, you want to have a life, want to buy a house, see your kids, and make really good money.

likefunny

I agree with A1 that some regional firms in some practice areas are doing work that’s similar to that done at BigLaw firms.

I spent a couple of decades at a regional firm with a reputation for real estate and the lawyers on the other side of my deals were often v50 firms. I’ve dealt with lawyers from probably 20 of the v50 as opposing counsel, despite those firms not having a presence in my state because I had the good fortune of working at a firm with quality clients that were building large real estate portfolios.

I definitely made less than peers at local offices of large national firms, but my compensation was still at least competitive within the market as an associate and was probably even more competitive bad a partner (particularly given that I was more of a client servicer than a rain maker).

Another possible difference: regional firms are much more intimate than I perceive BigLaw to be. Some firm rules are bent or outright ignored depending on the partner. Some degree of professionalism is sometimes lost at regional firms as the relationships that are established with your colleagues end up being fairly close and personal.

likehelpful

Also want to mention - obviously not all small firms and depends on the size and geographic market, but if you’re a POC, you’ll probably find there’s no formal minority group affinity group, you may be one of their first/only minority hires. (I enjoyed being congratulated on passing the bar at a midsize when my colleague passed... we did not look anything alike and she was like 10 years older than me, but only other person of my race in the office so they confused us). Certainly would not expect to find a dedicated diversity officer or similar like you often find in biglaw.

Expect less formal support if you have any issues really - sexism, racism, unfair billing practices. Partner tells you to write your own time off? I doubt there’s a formal central process and a firm ombudsman to help you.

Maybe the people are so genuinely nice they all support each other and nothing bad ever happens, but honestly, it’s cutthroat lawyers like any other firm, they just happen to work/bill a little less.

Obviously these are not non-issues in biglaw (I was also frequently mistaken for the only other person of my race in my practice group and office in biglaw...) but biglaw you get the higher pay and they at least pay lip service to doing better and have formal mechanisms in place to deal with issues through HR, ombudsman, diversity officer etc.

like

Better hours but less pay.

like

It totally depends on the firm and your practice area. I’m in a v10 firm on real estate and I believe actually regional firms are way better for my practice. Their rates are lower so they can get a variety of clients and they also have a broader practice etc

likesmart

Houston RE in the house!

I didn’t realize Coats Rose was only ~$15k behind Cravath. That’s awesome. I assume that’s base. How are the bonuses?

One other thing to be mindful of in a small firm is “fit.” It’s harder to avoid working with particular partners in a small firm, so conduct your diligence on the partners you’re expected to work with.

helpful

What’s your ultimate goal? Make partner? Go in-house or to the government?

like

Don’t burn any bridges. You want to be the lawyer at your new firm that your old national firm will refer matters to. It works.

helpful

I made the switch as a mid-level assoc when moving from DC to TX. Comments above on resources and staffing and expectations are good. My perspective is that unless you already are developing a decent book, your long-term prospects are better in a regional or smaller firm. Your ability to have hands on experience especially with clients, real courtroom experience and ability to develop your own clients over time in my experience is better in a smaller firm whether regional or state. Fit is important, but end of the day you don’t have to like everyone you work with, it’s the office, and building your own book - client bade gives you both long-term stability and satisfaction. Developing your own client base in a smaller environment is easier, and as to comp, that’s heavily dependent on the firm. Get to know the firm you’re looking at as best you can

like

Associate 1 - I actually had a case against and obtained a favorable settlement against my firm. They remembered me - and my personal view is even when being an aggressive litigator it’s always best to deal with the opposition professionally and whenever possible with genuine civility. Hey, we’re all just doing our jobs, and you just never know. My wife took an in- house position in TX and while getting another offer through a headhunter I reached out to my current firm and they invited me right in for an interview.

I think it also depends on whether you're going to /from a hq office vs a satellite office. I would bet that a satellite or regional office to hq of a smaller or more regional firm doesn't feel terribly different and may be advantageous simply bc energy tends to concentrate in the hq office. Granted I'm at a regional firm so I can't compare directly, but I sense that my friends have a worse off time at their regional office even though their overall firm is bigger than mine (bc of mergers etc). I think office culture means more than firm culture anyway

like

Note for fewer resources, that especially includes training, professional development, forms. Expect there to be none

Thanks to all for the insight. I’m hoping a switch will help with mentoring and building a book of my own - it can can be tough to get a name when servicing only national clients (and only when they have issues come up in my state). I can stomach a pay cut, but lost support gives me pause - I’ll be sure to vet that out.

Related Posts

Anyone here made the switch from IT audit to cyber? How did you get your foot in the door, trying to explore this route.

likehelpful

Which position will be more interesting? Cybersecurity Sr. Associate - Regulatory or Cyber Defense -Senior Associate Network Security? Currently have CISA and CISSP.

like

One of the reasons I want to transition from industry to consulting (tier 1) is that I get frustrated when I have to collaborate with mediocre people. My assumption is that Tier 1 consulting firms hire really sharp people and if I can get in, I’ll be collaborating with folks on top of their game (not expecting much from clients). I’m aware there are personal aspects I need to work on like my mindset, patience etc etc, but I just get so frustrated with blatant stupidity.

likefunny

Fellow introverts...can I only advance in my career if I take on a leadership role? The thought of this terrifies me. My current boss hasn't exactly given me the confidence that would reassure me that I'm leadership material. He constantly questions my design choices, which I'm able to defend. It doesn't help that he always presents outdated ideas and throws UX out the window. I know that I know my stuff and keep up with best practices. I have 4+ years experience but am treated as entry level.

like

Hi Fishes,

Need your help and suggestions to select from below offers:

PWC AC: 22.5 fix+ 2.5 JB+ Variable as per policy
Globant: 26.5 fix
Yoe: 5.10
Tech stack: SAP Native Hana+ BODS

Please suggest in terms of Wlb, career progression, job security,others.

Pwc AC Globant

like

I’m a senior in FAAS, did audit first at another firm. Came so close to cpa several times, but work took over and I lost credit to literally all of my exams twice. I’m over it, and I honestly don’t...

like

What skills are in demand for automation engineer? Please suggest tools and technologies to learn that useful while switching company?

like

Do partners buy into the firm? What is the incentive to promote principals to partners?

like

I'm a first yr attorney at an insurance firm and am in the process of interviewing for an in-house position at a tech company. The position is pretty much generalist, but I get the impression I'd be working mostly on SaaS and partnership transactions. I definitely think I would like the transactional work better, but I am concerned about the long-term earning potential vs. partnership. How common is it to eventually make $400k+ in-house/how difficult is it to transition back to a firm? Thanks!

like

I’ve been practicing in traditional labor for about two years now (although about a decade of labor relations experience) but I’m trying to break into employee benefits law. Unfortunately I’m not being given much experience in benefits as I’m pretty typecast as a labor atty. Any advice on how I can go about getting employee benefit experience? My long term goal is to have benefits be my main area of practice.

like

Hi All,

I am having an offer with hcl and Mindtree and some small company, all are given the same package.
Can you please suggest to me which one is better for job security and learning new things.
Yoe :9
Skill: MSBI.
@MINDTREE @HCL

Thanks.

Do you need a masters or a MBA to move up in a healthcare consultant role? I have about 8+ years experience however I think I would get more career opportunities with a masters degree.

like

anybody in the UX/product design/interaction design field go to grad school for it? what programs do you recommend?

I started a job less than a year ago, and I am certain that this is not the work I want to be doing in the medium or long run. How soon is too soon to leave?

like

Where do tax seniors go as exit opp?

like

Any experienced person who moved from deloitte to wipro in SAP skillset? What is your take ?

like

I am a CPA in the process of trying to switch to tech sales. I was in the process of trying to schedule a second interview with a tech company and got ghosted. Is this happening alot because of the recession? Should I keep following up?

like

I am currently a 5th grade math/science teacher and have an opportunity to move up to a middle school science and technology position. Anyone here move from elementary to middle school? What are some key things I should know if I take this position?

like

How tough is it to make the jump from SMB SAAS to Mid-market type roles? I’ve been annihilating my quota in my current role for the past 18 months, but on pretty small deal sizes. (Also I have no college degree) will sales managers care more about the performance record? Or more about the lack of big deal experience?

like

Hi Hyd Consulting fishes,

I have 4 years of experience with ZS Pune and have worked with multiple big pharma companies across US, Japan and UK majorly for sales force effectiveness (Alignments, placements, call plan designs and also some tech implementations for these modules)

I want to come back to my hometown Hyderabad, could you recommend some companies who would need my skillet.

like

More Posts

Does everyone use up all of their vacation days or some of you have days that are never used and eventually wasted at EOY?

like

What are your thoughts on the Facebook Libra project?

How much money have you invested in crypto currently? I’ll start - $5000 currently

like

NWA❗️

Got the call for this piece yesterday.

Post Photo
likeuplifting

Brillio has openings in Hyderabad location for Java Fullstack.
Exp- 4yoe
If interested, you can dm

like

What’s the salary for a manager 3/senior manager for FDD at pwc? Also, does anyone have tips on getting signing bonuses? Have conversations next week. Thanks all!

like

Hi all! I was thinking about changing industries. I am currently an underwriter for for-hire transportation with 7.5 YOE. Wondering what others have found to be transferable skills or if anyone has made a career change. Also curious what other career paths other underwriters have gone on (possible changing departments or line of business, etc). Any info or suggestions appreciated!!

like

Anyone here start playing golf later in life? How did you pick it up? I'm in my early 20s/F, and I want to try out golf but don't have any friends or family that play.

like

Consultants, would you join the Fed is given the opportunity?

like

Anybody has any experience working with the US Elections Assistance Commission?

like

Happy Diwali ✨ 🥳

Post Photo
like

Does anyone have advice about dealing with a workplace bully? Someone's already left because of them, they're a member of upper management, and I'm not sure telling HR would be a good idea.

likehelpful

Fake seizures- a sad thing but I saw them regularly on my unit!

like

What are the most boring jobs out there?

like

Going to India from DCA (flights were cheaper) but I live in Houston. Flight from DCA is at 10 pm. Should I book my flight from Houston to DC the same day or one day earlier? Given the flight cancela.

like

Hey Fishes, Recently I got offer from Nokia.
Can you please help me with How is WLB at Nokia & what should be the average expected CTC for job grade - 7. Currently I have offer of 14LPA CTC from a different company.. Nokia

like

How is the work culture at Nokia. Are they people friendly? Hire and fire ?
Basically do they care for the employees

like

Does anyone else have a celebrity they hate for really no reason? I can't stand Norm McDonald and I don't know why.

like

Off topic, Can anyone please suggest me how to prepare for AWS cloud job, my current project is not related to cloud, i have +2 years of production support in linux and currently holding aws practitioner certificate.

31M here. Met a girl last week, 31F, and we hit it off instantly. We have so much in common and everything feels right, tomorrow will be our 3rd date. She slept over last night, no sex, but we made out all night. I haven’t felt like this for anyone in a while and it feels amazing, but I’m scared to commit. I have this fear of getting hurt or putting in effort only for it not to last.

likeupliftinghelpful

Additional Posts in Law

Tips on giving notice over the phone? I’m required to be in the office 5 days a week but the two partners I work for never come on Fridays or Monday mornings

like

Is it normal or ideal to continue working on a deal in your last week at the firm?

like

I’m studying for the Texas bar using Barbri. I am from a good school in the state (T50) and performed well there, but I am terrified that I am going to fail the bar. Any tips, tricks, advice on how you made it through? Is Barbri enough?

like

A summer associate has a side hustle business. It’s ok until they are barred right?

like

People tell me that in order to make partner as a white collar litigator I have to be an AUSA first; how true is this?

like

Is there a market for lawyers to add expertise In crisis management or reputation management? My goal is to counsel clients on how to respond to media inquiries without saying or posting something detrimental to a potential litigation while still maintaining communication with their client base. If so, how to break into that industry? Courses? Books? Certifications?

like

How often do you respond to emails from law students who want to learn about your firm/practice area? I get like a dozen requests right around OCI every year. Frankly I’m tired of speaking to them and answering the same boring questions, especially if I know they have a low GPA and no chance of summering at my firm, but I do feel bad saying no/ignoring them

like

Q’s for hiring partners and recruiters - you know that most associates quit their managing attorneys and not the firm/case. I’m in that boat. What do I say to a prospective employer about the situation of why I want to jump ship?

Very brief background - I’m a senior associate who has been on one complex commercial litigation case for over a year. Over time, the relationships between attorneys on the case have deteriorated to the point that it is affecting my productivity/work. I want out.

like

Curious to know what other firm's bonus structures are, particularly those with billable requirements of 1900 and below. Trying to understand what the norm is and figure out if associates at my firm are getting screwed. thanks

like

Any insight on NYC firms with great work life balance? Doesn’t have to be cravath scale but something relative to the market.

like

Anyone neck deep in the Paycheck Protection Program? Trying to figure out if a parent can qualify for forgiveness of expenses (rent utilities) of an affiliate/subsidiary if only 1 loan is taken.

like

When you see a startup founded by a lawyer, you know it's destined for failure

likefunny

An actual Attorney's work history on LinkedIn....
I feel this in my soul.

Post Photo
likefunnyupliftinghelpful

Getting life insurance so they drug tested me. Now they want me to fill out a form that basically asks me to certify if I’ve EVER done any of these drugs. What the? Who hasn’t EVER? What happens if I say never did? Idk my results from the drug test, maybe I smoked a bowl in the last few weeks, can’t say for sure. How does this work?

likehelpful

Does anyone know of recruiting firms with a focus on Anti-money laundering? I’m foreign educated and newly admitted NY attorney with CAMS certification but living in Miami lol. I’m here, because my husband practices in SoFlo. Any recommendations? I don’t have any experience but have CAMS.

like

Has anyone received what seem like unfair reviews that came out of nowhere? How do you handle it?

like

Let’s talk suits. Do you have any thoughts on a junior associate wearing an expensive suit or a suit that departs from the norm (eg subtle pinstripe navy suit, or a suit with larger lapels/peaked lapels?). I’m thinking about upgrading my suit, but I don’t want to piss anyone off with a suit screaming the message “I’ve made it” when I’m just a junior associate. Perhaps it’s just all in my head and no one actually cares.

like

Trying to explain billable hrs to hubs. I billed 160 this month, which he said “is only 40 hr weeks” (true) - but how many hrs do you figure you “work” or are in the office to bill 150?

like

Any thoughts on Phillips Lytle? If you could please provide insight on culture/billable requirements? Thank you.

like

New attorney doing M&A. These last few weeks have been kicking my ass. Consistent 12+ hour days. Might miss a family party tomorrow and will have to work over the weekend to finish a transaction. Any advice for a noobie on getting through this stretch?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal